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KAP140 Autopilot Tutorial

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13 hours ago, fppilot said:

Does the KAP 140 require that you select APR from HDG mode in order to arm the GS function?

Frank,  From page 12 of the KAP140 manual, that would appear to be the case, and how it has worked for me.  I've never tried going to APR mode directly from NAV mode.

Cheers!

Edited by StewartH

Stew

"Different dog, different fleas"

 

 

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2 hours ago, taguilo said:

I've included a link to some fair and not so fair comments about KAP behavior on LPV/RNAV approaches.:

https://www.diamondaviators.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5024

There is a great deal of confirmation in that thread.  Read this:

Quote

Usually the “autopilot not following the approach” with people flying LNAV approaches is a result of the autopilot being flown in NAV mode on the part of the approach when the transition from terminal to approach (in the GPS) occurs, and there is a momentary drop in the nav signal coming from the GPS. The autopilot correctly ceases to fly NAV, and reverts to wings level with NAV flashing.

It’s an easy “mistake” to make, and I did it myself last Friday on an approach in another airplane with a KAP 140. I’ve always found it best to fly with the HDG bug during that phase of the approach, as it will always transition from HDG to APR correctly without sensing a nav source change.

The tell tale sign that this is what happened is when you see you’re not maintaining course, look at the autopilot and see if it’s mode indication is flashing.

It speaks mostly to course deviation and does not speak much to GS capture, but it is consistent. The momentary signal drop explains why it works fine to arm GS on some approaches and not others on switching from NAV to APR, and why switching from NAV to HDG first, then to APR works as the transition from HDG to APR is not subject to the signal dropout.

Thanks!  Great link!


Frank Patton
MasterCase Pro H500M; MSI Z490 WiFi MOB; i7 10700k 3.8 Ghz; Gigabyte RTX 3080 12gb OC; H100i Pro liquid cooler; 32GB DDR4 3600;  Gold RMX850X PSU;
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VG289 4K 27" Monitor; Honeycomb Alpha & Bravo, Crosswind 3's w/dampener.  
Former USAF meteorologist & ground weather school instructor. AOPA Member #07379126
                       
"I will never put my name on a product that does not have in it the best that is in me." - John Deere

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Good analysis and information Frank! Thanks for the follow up.

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Fr. Bill    

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10 hours ago, n4gix said:

Good analysis and information Frank! Thanks for the follow up.

Just "Stayin Alive" as us Region Rats understand!


Frank Patton
MasterCase Pro H500M; MSI Z490 WiFi MOB; i7 10700k 3.8 Ghz; Gigabyte RTX 3080 12gb OC; H100i Pro liquid cooler; 32GB DDR4 3600;  Gold RMX850X PSU;
ASUS 
VG289 4K 27" Monitor; Honeycomb Alpha & Bravo, Crosswind 3's w/dampener.  
Former USAF meteorologist & ground weather school instructor. AOPA Member #07379126
                       
"I will never put my name on a product that does not have in it the best that is in me." - John Deere

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On 4/19/2018 at 3:46 PM, fppilot said:

Looks like I am  now good!  But what a frustrating experience!

I have still been frustrated with this KAP 140 autopilot with recent 310R Redux flights.  So over the weekend I spent about 4 to 5 hours just shooting approaches, and logging what worked, and what did not work.  There was inconsistency, even if I flew the same approach and sequenced the KAP 140 the same from NAV to HDG and then to APR.  However my work eventually paid off thanks noticing a new GPS capability, and I am preparing a post that should prove helpful. 

Of note here is that I am using the latest Reality XP GPS gauges, and they now feature auto-sequencing of the autopilot from NAV to APR mode.  That auto-sequencing is a breakthrough for the implementation of this 310R Redux's KAP 140, and the auto-sequence function works with all of my other aircraft installed with these latest RXP gauges . I am flying successful approaches without even touching the APR, NAV, or HDG buttons.  What's left as workload appears to be just managing ALT and VS during the final approach.  I need to do a bit more verification, some time to write it up, and then I will post.

The latest Reality XP GPS releases have this NAV to APR Automatic Sequencing, which is an AFMS option selected in their Configuration settings. The latest versions are:
                 RXP GNS v2 release v 2.4.6
                 RXP GTN series release v2.5.11

Both were released Jan 11, 2019.  Stay tuned for more.

Edited by fppilot
  • Like 1

Frank Patton
MasterCase Pro H500M; MSI Z490 WiFi MOB; i7 10700k 3.8 Ghz; Gigabyte RTX 3080 12gb OC; H100i Pro liquid cooler; 32GB DDR4 3600;  Gold RMX850X PSU;
ASUS 
VG289 4K 27" Monitor; Honeycomb Alpha & Bravo, Crosswind 3's w/dampener.  
Former USAF meteorologist & ground weather school instructor. AOPA Member #07379126
                       
"I will never put my name on a product that does not have in it the best that is in me." - John Deere

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@fppilot where you ever able to build a good SPAD.neXt profile for the multipanel and this airplane?  I've pretty much given up on using the MP with most properly implemented APs like this one as I can never seem to get all of the interactions to play well together.  If you've been even moderately successful, I'd love to be able to see what you've done.  The Milviz 310 Redux and the A2A Bonanza account for about 95% of my flying these days and it's frustrating that I have to keep "hands-off" of the MP in order to properly use these planes' respective APs, both of which are brilliantly executed and offer their own unique challenges.

Scott

Edited by tttocs

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40 minutes ago, tttocs said:

@fppilot where you ever able to build a good SPAD.neXt profile for the multipanel and this airplane?  I've pretty much given up on using the MP with most properly implemented APs like this one as I can never seem to get all of the interactions to play well together.  If you've been even moderately successful, I'd love to be able to see what you've done.  The Milviz 310 Redux and the A2A Bonanza account for about 95% of my flying these days and it's frustrating that I have to keep "hands-off" of the MP in order to properly use these planes' respective APs, both of which are brilliantly executed and offer their own unique challenges.

Scott

Scott,
No. I gave up on using the Multipanel with the Redux.  When I think back to it, the reason I got the MP was for some aircraft where the autopilot is situated out of normal VC sight, such as the lower quadrant console placement of the Carenado C90 King Air, or well off to the right such as with Carenado's C208B Caravan, Alabeo C421 Golden Eagle, etc.  With the Redux, and a number of other aircraft, the AP is situated such that I am able to fly it without the mutipanel, controlling it  instead with my mouse.  To your point, however, the Redux is the only aircraft I fly where I first disconnect the multipanel, as otherwise it seems to interfere. Funny, but the next most robust KAP 140 I use is I believe  in the A2A C182 and I do not recall any issues using it with the Multipanel.

I tried a couple of Redux profiles that are accessible within a running Spad:Next, but one was written to support additional panels that I do not have, and the other was no better than my own failed attempts.

I have two Spad.Next profiles that I use.  One I use with aircraft with conventional quadrants. Left throttle, center prop, right mixture. I can use it with most aircraft.  The other is set up exclusively for the Milviz B55 Baron. Left props, center throttle, right mixture.

I log most of my hours in the RealAir Turbine Duke v2, Milviz Baron, Milviz 310R Redux, and Carenado B58 Baron.  I fly the A2A C182 mostly for shorter $100 Hamburger runs, and the Carenado C208B Grand Caravan for Caribbean island hopping.

I am about finished with prep of a new post to add to this topic concerning the Redux KAP 140 and the NAV to APR autosequencing capability of the latest RXP GTN and GNS releases.  Hope to post it later today.

 

Edited by fppilot

Frank Patton
MasterCase Pro H500M; MSI Z490 WiFi MOB; i7 10700k 3.8 Ghz; Gigabyte RTX 3080 12gb OC; H100i Pro liquid cooler; 32GB DDR4 3600;  Gold RMX850X PSU;
ASUS 
VG289 4K 27" Monitor; Honeycomb Alpha & Bravo, Crosswind 3's w/dampener.  
Former USAF meteorologist & ground weather school instructor. AOPA Member #07379126
                       
"I will never put my name on a product that does not have in it the best that is in me." - John Deere

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Can either of you fellows, Scott or Frank, explain what you mean by "using the Multipanel"?  Does this have anything to do with FSUIPC and a throttle/yoke setup, which I do not have?  Just curious, while I'm following this thread.

Thanks.

Stew


Stew

"Different dog, different fleas"

 

 

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18 minutes ago, StewartH said:

Can either of you fellows, Scott or Frank, explain what you mean by "using the Multipanel"?  Does this have anything to do with FSUIPC and a throttle/yoke setup, which I do not have?  Just curious, while I'm following this thread.

Hi Stew,

The "Multipanel" we're talking about is what Saitek/Logitech calls their autopilot hardware.  By default, it's set up to work with the default FSX/P3D autopilot.  Software like SPAD (new and old) allows for some level of custom programming, but when it comes to more unique autopilots, there end up being some interesting interactions that Frank, myself and others have not been able to work around.  In extreme cases (the 310 being one of them) you may need to actually unplug the thing completely in order to keep it from interfering.

49 minutes ago, fppilot said:

No. I gave up on using the Multipanel with the Redux.

Ah, OK.  Bummer as I was hoping you might have been able to finally create a quality MP profile for a plane like the 310.  So far, I've failed and I've yet to see a profile from SPAD's repository that's worth much either.  Thanks anyway for your efforts.

Scott

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27 minutes ago, StewartH said:

Can either of you fellows, Scott or Frank, explain what you mean by "using the Multipanel"? 

Follow this link to see a Logitech Multipanel


Frank Patton
MasterCase Pro H500M; MSI Z490 WiFi MOB; i7 10700k 3.8 Ghz; Gigabyte RTX 3080 12gb OC; H100i Pro liquid cooler; 32GB DDR4 3600;  Gold RMX850X PSU;
ASUS 
VG289 4K 27" Monitor; Honeycomb Alpha & Bravo, Crosswind 3's w/dampener.  
Former USAF meteorologist & ground weather school instructor. AOPA Member #07379126
                       
"I will never put my name on a product that does not have in it the best that is in me." - John Deere

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Thank you, Scott and Frank.  I recall watching that video several months ago, but didn't realize it also had to do with Saitek's "Multipanel".  Thanks again.

Stew


Stew

"Different dog, different fleas"

 

 

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Most interesting conversation about the change from GPS to LOC for final approach on and ILS and then the AP starts flashing. At this point do you just need to select the NAV as second time and the autopilot will now recognize the LOC?

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