him225

Vsync without triple buffering and fps

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For those that might be interested, here are my current settings:

NVidia Control Panel

Global Settings:

Ambient Occlusion: Off
Anisotropic filtering: Application-controlled
Antialiasing - FXAA: Off
Antialiasing - Gamma correction: On
Antialiasing - Mode: Application-controlled
Antialiasing - Setting: Application-controlled             (entry greyed out)
Antialiasing - Transparency: Off
CUDA - GPUs: All
DSR - Factors: 2.00x (native resolution   
DSR - Smoothness: 33%    
Maximum pre-rendered frames: Use the 3D application setting
Monitor Technology: G-SYNC
Multi-Frame Sampled AA (MFAA): Off
OPenGL rendering GPU: Auto-select                        
(Multi-display/mixed-GPU acceleration: Single display performance mode)
Power management mode: Optimal power
Preferred refresh rate (Ancor Communications Inc ROG PG278Q): Highest Available
Shader Cache: On
Texture filtering - Anisotropic sample optimisation: Off
Texture filtering - Negative LOD bias: Allow
Texture filtering - Quality: Quality
Texture filtering - Trilinear Optimisation: On
Threaded optimisation: Auto
Triple buffering: Off
Vertical sync: Use the 3D application setting
Virtual Reality pre-rendered frames: 1

Prepar3D:

Antialiasing - Mode: Enhance the application setting
Antialiasing - Setting: Use global setting (Application-controlled)    (entry greyed out)
Monitor Technology: Fixed Refresh  (N.B. GSYNC - Application Mode = OFF in NVIDIA INSPECTOR)
(Multi-display/mixed-GPU acceleration: Single display performance mode)
Maximum pre-rendered frames: Use global setting (Use the 3D application setting)
Preferred refresh rate (Ancor Communications Inc ROG PG278Q): Use global setting (Highest available)
Power management mode: Prefer maximum performance
Texture Filtering - Anisotropic sample optimisation: Off
Texture filtering - Negative LOD bias: Clamp
Texture filtering - Quality: High Quality
Texture filtering - Trilinear optimisation: Use global setting (On)
Triple buffering: Use global setting (Off)
Vertical sync: Use the 3D application setting

 

NVIDIA Profile Inspector (Ver 2.13)

Prepar3D:

SLI compatibility bits (DX10 + DX11) - 0x080040F5 (Daylight, Evolve, Monster Hunter Online Benchmark, Ryse: Son of Rome...)

Frame Rate Limiter: Off                        
G-SYNC - Application Mode: Off
Maximum pre-rendered frames: Use the 3D application setting)
Preferred Refreshrate: Highest available
Triple buffering: OFF
Vertical Sync: Use the 3D application setting
Antialiasing - Mode: Enhance the application setting
Antialiasing - Transparency Multisampling: Disabled            
Antialiasing - Transparency Supersampling: Off/Multisampling (8xMSAA in P3D)
Enable Maxwell sample interleaving (MFAA): Off                
Texture filtering - Negative LOD bias: Clamp
Texture filtering - Quality: High quality
Multi-display/mixed-GPU acceleration: Single display performance mode
Power management mode: Prefer maximum performance

Mike

 

 

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Hi,

is there a way possible to turn off vsync in NCP

and just use the one in P3d v4.3

ive tried and does not work 

doesnt keep my FPS at the refresh rate of 25hz 

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You can think of P3D Vsync=On as simply obtaining the refresh frequency of the monitor and makes frames averaged around that rate - it doesn't control Vertical Synchronization of the image that's handled by the Desktop process that's the Vertical Sync in NCP so that's not doing anything in P3D.

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On 4/16/2018 at 10:22 PM, Wanthuyr Filho said:

Nowadays I set the refresh rate back to 60 Hz and set 30 FPS inside NVidia Inspector, which gives me a very smooth experience, even when the FPS falls bellow 30 and the mouse pointer is also very smooth to deal with. Inside P3D the FPS is unlimited, no signs of distracting blurring.

Problem with this is the autogen issue on arrival. I used to have this setup but now set 30fps (29 actually based on @SteveW findings) internally to allow the autogen to load properly at arrival. Still smooth as well. 

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13 minutes ago, SteveW said:

You can think of P3D Vsync=On as simply obtaining the refresh frequency of the monitor and makes frames averaged around that rate - it doesn't control Vertical Synchronization of the image that's handled by the Desktop process that's the Vertical Sync in NCP so that's not doing anything in P3D.

Hi Steve 

thanks for the reply,

i am a little confused , lol I’m. Not sharpest tool in the shed.

when I set my monitor 4K to 25hz and the vertical sync is on in ncp

p3d vsync on tripple buffer on and unlimited FPS

its at 25 FPS in sim

when I switch off vertical sync in 

ncp and with same setting in P3d 

my frames are way up to 50

shouldnt P3d vsync work 

sorry if it is a stupid question 

 

regards

mike

 

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1 hour ago, mikeymike said:

I set my monitor 4K to 25hz

p3d vsync on tripple buffer on and unlimited FPS

its at 25 FPS in sim

 

Hi, That's right. As I said VSync=On in P3D makes the sim aim for 25 - your monitor refresh frequency.

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2 hours ago, SteveW said:

 

Hi, That's right. As I said VSync=On in P3D makes the sim aim for 25 - your monitor refresh frequency.

Yes,

but why is it not aiming for 25 when disabling it via ncp?

they both need to be set?

im confused 

Edited by mikeymike

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Because it's not got the 25 to refer to.

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1 hour ago, SteveW said:

Because it's not got the 25 to refer to.

I see.. 

thank you.

 

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On 4/18/2018 at 10:28 AM, SteveW said:

Adding the Triple Buffer does not alter the fps it only enables the next frame drawn to be more accurate according to what the scene will be when it is finally displayed.

What is "the next frame drawn to be more accurate according to what the scene will be when it is finally displayed"? More accurate in what sense? Does it require any noticeable cpu overhead?

Thanks.

 

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5 minutes ago, Dirk98 said:

What is "the next frame drawn to be more accurate according to what the scene will be when it is finally displayed"? More accurate in what sense? Does it require any noticeable cpu overhead?

Thanks.

 

It adds a little more smootness at the cost of a little framerate.

But If you system cannot run the Vsync framerate it will cause extra jittering.

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2 minutes ago, GSalden said:

It adds a little more smootness at the cost of a little framerate.

But If you system cannot run the Vsync framerate it will cause extra jittering.

Indeed, on AS EGLL approach (with ORBX FT England), FPS always sink somewhat below 25 FPS (mon. refresh set @25Hz), so I may see some extra jitters due to tripple buffering?

Thanks. 

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2 hours ago, Dirk98 said:

What is "the next frame drawn to be more accurate according to what the scene will be when it is finally displayed"? More accurate in what sense? Does it require any noticeable cpu overhead?

Thanks.

 

Yes since with TB there's more often a free buffer ready to update, less pauses, and there's less deferring of your inputs, sometimes known as antilag.

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On 10/10/2018 at 1:32 PM, B777ER said:

Problem with this is the autogen issue on arrival. I used to have this setup but now set 30fps (29 actually based on @SteveW findings) internally to allow the autogen to load properly at arrival. Still smooth as well. 

True, I also noticed that reducing the internal FPS lock setting to 40 would eliminate the autogen loading issues (but keeping the NVI set to 30 still). Now the CPU usage is much higher, yet with some headroom for most of the time.

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I guys...i have this issue after numerous test with p3d v4.3.

Have a monitor with 30hz or 60hz possibility and use a gtx 1080 gpu on 7700k@5.0ghz with 16 ram on win10 x64 pro.

30hz+lock in sim at 30+tb on and vsync on in sim (no tweak on inspector), and use FFTF at 0.01=FPS stable at 30fps, autogen and ground textures load very very well also with 320fslabs (very impact on performance) but, have a constant microstutter. Same situation, only change fps lock from 30 to 31...sim ultra smooth, but lost autogen during flight. Why this? Have a same problems if set 60hz with 1/2vsync and 30 or 31fps lock...if 30 autogen ok, but costant microstutter, with 31 smooth but lost autogen. Please help!

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Leave out the low FFTF setting since you want a higher FFTF at some stages. Keeping a low FFTF constantly means something's going to be catching up at some stage and maybe in small chunks.

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On 10/10/2018 at 9:37 AM, mikeymike said:

Hi Steve 

thanks for the reply,

i am a little confused , lol I’m. Not sharpest tool in the shed.

when I set my monitor 4K to 25hz and the vertical sync is on in ncp

p3d vsync on tripple buffer on and unlimited FPS

its at 25 FPS in sim

when I switch off vertical sync in 

ncp and with same setting in P3d 

my frames are way up to 50

shouldnt P3d vsync work 

sorry if it is a stupid question 

 

regards

mike

 

 

On 10/10/2018 at 2:18 PM, SteveW said:

Because it's not got the 25 to refer to.

Steve

I thought his sim should still be attempting to average around 25 fps since he has Vsync still enabled in P3D using a 25Hz monitor setting, why would it climb to 50 fps?

I don't use NCP to enable Vsync, only P3D and my monitor is 30 Hz and my frames bounce around 30 fps.

What am I missing regarding Vsync?

Thanks in advance

Joe

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Hi Joe, What's happening is that the 25 doesn't get recognised so the same as if VSync=Off in P3D Display Settings. Apologies if i'm not interpreting you right.

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1 hour ago, joepoway said:

 

I don't use NCP to enable Vsync, only P3D and my monitor is 30 Hz and my frames bounce around 30 fps.

What am I missing regarding Vsync?

Certainly you have it sorted out there OK. That's precisely what it is designed to do. You effectively limit the fps down to the monitor refresh frequency. However you notice I always say 'steer' the fps output and so it's not actually a limit and you see the fps wobble around the monitor frequency.

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8 minutes ago, SteveW said:

Hi Joe, What's happening is that the 25 doesn't get recognised so the same as if VSync=Off in P3D Display Settings. Apologies if i'm not interpreting you right.

Hi Steve

I'm still confused as to why Mike's system ran up to 50 fps when he had Vsync enabled in P3D with a 25Hz monitor setting, can it actually bounce that high?

Also if NCP was set to Vsync On would it clip at 30 FPS instead of bouncing higher?

Joe

Edited by joepoway

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Whether the VSync get's through is down to the hardware and possible other things. For example, there's a thousand different combinations of monitor, settings and cables so what actually results needs testing on a per system basis. Next, if the system is mis-behaving in some way be sure the right settings are made, but first do a Restore/Apply on those profiles - very often the code in the profile can mis-match and cause odd behaviour so always start fresh..

Edited by SteveW

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...look for doubling. If fps is double or half what you expect - suspect a fault in the VSYNC area.

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So we are still correct to say that VSync=On in P3D Display Settings steers the GPU output to near the Monitor Refresh Frequency. However, remember we are not talking about vertical sync here, that's under control of the desktop, P3D only ever shows a window, even at fullscreen. VSync=On in P3D attempts to understand the time of the next frame on the monitor - anything can happen down that chain. When the next frame is completed it can take any amount of time - hence the wobble.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, SteveW said:

So we are still correct to say that VSync=On in P3D Display Settings steers the GPU output to near the Monitor Refresh Frequency. However, remember we are not talking about vertical sync here, that's under control of the desktop, P3D only ever shows a window, even at fullscreen. VSync=On in P3D attempts to understand the time of the next frame on the monitor - anything can happen down that chain. When the next frame is completed it can take any amount of time - hence the wobble.

 

 

This I understand but will using the Vsync On setting in Nvidia Control Panel actually control the Verticle Sync to what it is set at? It doesn't seem to work any differently in my set-up, I still get the "wobble" around 30 FPS. It seems neither application of Vsync actually controls the Verticle Sync in P3D but only attempts to understand it as you say, hence the "wobble" in either case whether using P3D, NCP or both set to Vsync ON.

Joe

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34 minutes ago, joepoway said:

This I understand but will using the Vsync On setting in Nvidia Control Panel actually control the Verticle Sync to what it is set at? It doesn't seem to work any differently in my set-up

If you recall I mentioned vertical sync is under control of the desktop and that the P3D viewport is only ever shown in a window. In fact P3D does not use Exclusive Mode - the special game display setup that Windows can do that is more in tune with programs that only have a single view. P3D opted to use the Window view as an overall solution to some problems in that area. So no, that's not going to affect P3D, however that might affect operations in some way, so that must be inspected on a per system basis. That setting with the half refresh etc is for Exclusive mode but don't rule out it having an effect somehow.

VSync=On is such an important setting not necessarily what we might ultimately use, since there's locked fps too, although we do usually use VSync because of the performance requirements of locked is so high. It's so important that not using or understanding it is a mistake since it shows the behaviour of the setup from Unlimited fps. Ultimately showing us if we have Overhead in the system by seeing the fps drop and the CPU use drop when VSync is switched on. Understanding that goes some way to understanding how P3D works.

 

 

Edited by SteveW

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