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Treetops45

Nils-D BK-117 works in XP-11??

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The X-Plane.org store shows it as XP-10, but there is an August'17 video review that appears to be using XP-11.

Is it XP-11 compatible??

T45

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Posted (edited)

It's sort-of XP11 compatible, but I wouldn't recommend it.

It will start okay (at least with an engine running start), and it flies okay in XP11. I haven't tested the plugin functions like force trim release, just did a quick flight a while ago to see whether it works at all. I bought it back when it was released and was just curious.

One big problem is that it uses a "baked in" window reflection, which was cool back in the day, but we have real reflections now. The static reflection in the window is very distracting with XP11's lighting system, especially when direct sunlight hits the windscreen. 

Nils' BK-117 was the first really great, systems-modeled helicopter in X-Plane. But it hasn't been updated in a very long time, and it seems there isn't a full XP11 update on the horizon.

There are far better helicopter models available now, like the X-Trident Bell 412 and DreamFoil Bell 407 (my two favorites). If you want a twin with more advanced systems including sling ops, get the 412. If you want something lighter and more nimble, get the 407. DreamFoil has some other good helicopter models too.

Edited to add: Oh, and there is a very good free Bell 429 that uses some of the X-Trident 412 plugin features. Look for it over at the .org files.

Edited by Paraffin

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Posted (edited)

Ok

Thank you Paraffin.

I D/L' d the Bell 429 & it looks pretty good.

I need to figure out how to set up the throttle. I am using a Logitech joystick & the throttle are on the normal slider.

I can spool up the engines but I don't think I have enough blade angle of attack to lift off. Not sure how to adjust that.

I also have a problem with the XP-11 Sikorsky, it wants to run almost full throttle when the throttle is shut off.

So some control assignment/tweaking to sort out.

T45 (Don't know where th line strike came from)

Edited by Treetops45

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5 hours ago, Treetops45 said:

I need to figure out how to set up the throttle. I am using a Logitech joystick & the throttle are on the normal slider.

I can spool up the engines but I don't think I have enough blade angle of attack to lift off. Not sure how to adjust that.

You probably don't have anything mapped to the collective, which controls blade pitch and lifts the helicopter. On most of the larger helicopters you don't actually control the throttle except under certain conditions; it's automatically linked to the collective. You fly by adjusting blade pitch with the collective, not throttle power.

Try this: in the joystick settings menu, map your throttle slider to the setting called "Throttle". Not "Throttle 1" or "Throttle 2".

When set to "Throttle" (no number), X-Plane will automatically reverse the motion of your throttle controller when it detects a helicopter model, so it mimics the way you pull *up* on the collective lever to increase blade pitch. Another option is to just map the throttle control to reverse axis, or a dedicated collective setting. But this is the easiest way to do it, because you don't have to change anything when moving between fixed-wing and helicopter models, X-Plane just automatically reverses the axis on a helicopter.

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Posted (edited)

Thanks Paraffin.

On the Bell 429 I have the 412 drop down menu with throttle set to control both engines & observing in the cockpit , that is working.

However, I don't have the Collective hooked up anywhere, so I'm spinning blades with no pitch..

If I can figure out the Collective I think it will work. Is there a 'lock' in the 429 that could affect the Collective?

(The 'hand brake" type control goes up & down & the 'twist grip" on it, [throttles], twist ok], but there is no rotor 'bite'

T45

Edited by Treetops45

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Treetops45 said:

On the Bell 429 I have the 412 drop down menu with throttle set to control both engines & observing in the cockpit , that is working.

However, I don't have the Collective hooked up anywhere, so I'm spinning blades with no pitch..

If I can figure out the Collective I think it will work. Is there a 'lock' in the 429 that could affect the Collective?

Setting your throttle slider to control both engines won't work, because in this type of helicopter you don't fly by controlling the engines directly. In turbine helicopters like the Bell 429, the throttle management is automatic once the engines are started, and you only use the collective.

It's done with a governor hooked up to the fuel flow to the engines, controlled by a rotor RPM sensor. The rotor disk needs to run within a limited range of constant RPM, whether you're on the ground, or hovering, or in cruise. As you pull up on the collective to take off, the rotor blades increase in pitch, which causes drag that wants to slow the rotor down. To keep the RPM constant, a governor will automatically increase the engine power to compensate. Same thing in reverse. As you lower the collective to descend, the blade pitch decreases, and the governor slows the engines down so the rotor doesn't exceed maximum RPM. 

So in the sim, forget about directly controlling the engines. You just map your controller to the setting "Throttle" -- not Throttle 1 or Throttle 2, or anything in the 412 plugin menu -- and X-Plane will automatically turn your throttle slider into a collective and reverse the axis, so you pull "up" to increase pitch. The throttles on both engines will follow automatically.

P,S, There *is* a separate control setting called "Collective" in X-Plane if you want to map it separately along with a throttle control (if you have enough sliders or a separate HOTAS throttle quadrant). That might be required for certain small piston or vintage helicopters. But the easiest way to do this is just map your slider to the setting called "Throttle" (no following numbers) and let the governor manage the engines.

Edited by Paraffin

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That did the trick.

Once I took any 412 ticked items out & set  the Throttle as you said, it began to fly!

Thanks for your help.

T45

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On 21.4.2018 at 7:27 PM, Paraffin said:

Try this: in the joystick settings menu, map your throttle slider to the setting called "Throttle". Not "Throttle 1" or "Throttle 2".

When set to "Throttle" (no number), X-Plane will automatically reverse the motion of your throttle controller when it detects a helicopter model, so it mimics the way you pull *up* on the collective lever to increase blade pitch. Another option is to just map the throttle control to reverse axis, or a dedicated collective setting. But this is the easiest way to do it, because you don't have to change anything when moving between fixed-wing and helicopter models, X-Plane just automatically reverses the axis on a helicopter.

Is this new in XP 11? Or was it this way in XP 10, too?

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1 hour ago, MarioDonick said:

Is this new in XP 11? Or was it this way in XP 10, too?

It was this way in XP10 too. Probably XP9 as well, but I don't remember. 

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@Paraffin

Can you help me get this thing started?  Doesn't matter if I check engines running or not I'm left with a spinning down main rotor and some systems on and some off when I load the Bell 429.  The starter switch doesn't seem to do anything.  In the 412 plugin menu I've not set hardware throttle and it is set to none at the moment.  In my controls I've tried setting my CH throttle both as collective and throttle.

full res pic:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ku2x9e3zk47fl9a/b429_def_start.jpg?dl=0

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Posted (edited)

Ryan, start from here:

Set X-Plane to load the Bell 429 with engines running, not a cold start. Get that working first before you try a cold start.

Make sure your CH throttle controller is set to just "Throttle" and not "Throttle 1 or 2" in the joystick setup menu. Setting it to both collective and throttle won't work. Your CH throttle automatically switches to a collective with reversed axis and automatic throttle control (via governor), if you just assign it to "Throttle" in the XP settings.

Don't use anything in the 412 plugin menu; that's for more advanced stuff like force trim release. You should be able to fly the 429 first with basic XP joystick assignments.

Edited by Paraffin

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Posted (edited)

I couldn't get used to the reverse collective in XP.

You can make new control profiles, map your joystick throttle to the Collective in XP. Save the profile 'Helicopters'.

You can choose what aircraft are associated to control profiles. So set all the helis to the helicopter profile.

6I5WbYQ.png

Edited by NZ255

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That screenshot is with engines on....  which is weird because they are off.

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