Immersive Audio 737NG CFM Immersion Soundpack HD released

[regis9 4,013]

Thanks, glad to hear there’s an update coming.

[Bobsk8 12,682]

3 hours ago, ErichB said:

Those sub-bass tones are very important and you hear them all the time on the real thing.  In fact, you  feel them too.  I installed this pack last night and was also somewhat disappointed.  The sub-bass tones are not there.

You hear them in the real cockpit?  

[ErichB 3,642]

29 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

You hear them in the real cockpit?  

Well,  PMDG have them in their package.  I remember RSR saying some time ago that you will only hear in the sound package what you hear in the cockpit - their sounds are engineered that way.  Also, because we aren't actually flying, sound cues are extremely important and play a massive part in overall immersion.  

To some extent there is also the argument that because 99% of folks will not truly experience sounds from the cockpit, that the only frame of reference is what you hear in the cabin.  The natural inclination is therefore to want to hear those sounds.

Edited April 27, 2018 by ErichB

[Bobsk8 12,682]

49 minutes ago, ErichB said:

Well,  PMDG have them in their package.  I remember RSR saying some time ago that you will only hear in the sound package what you hear in the cockpit - their sounds are engineered that way.  Also, because we aren't actually flying, sound cues are extremely important and play a massive part in overall immersion.  

To some extent there is also the argument that because 99% of folks will not truly experience sounds from the cockpit, that the only frame of reference is what you hear in the cabin.  The natural inclination is therefore to want to hear those sounds.

Well the sounds in the cabin would be louder and with more bass than in the cockpit, I would think, since you are much closer to the engines. You stated in your post " Those sub-bass tones are very important and you hear them all the time on the real thing" Just wondering how much time you have spent in the cockpit of a real NGX on a flight, to come to that conclusion, since real 737 pilots stated that the new Immersion pack sounds are very realistic. 

 

[ErichB 3,642]

3 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

Just wondering how much time you have spent in the cockpit of a real NGX on a flight, to come to that conclusion

I was referring to my time in the cabin.  I'm not a pilot.

I think the point being made is that in the new immersion pack, i cannot hear the bass tones at all.

 

 

Edited April 27, 2018 by ErichB

[ErichB 3,642]

14 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

since real 737 pilots stated that the new Immersion pack sounds are very realistic. 

Carenado also says 'tested by real pilots.....'  That almost never inspires confidence.

There are different aspects to a sound package which can sound real.  Engine whine, wind sounds, transition sounds.  They could all sound real.  It doesn't necessarily account for missing sounds.  Some people, (be they pilots or not) have different takes on different things

Edited April 27, 2018 by ErichB

[regis9 4,013]

The point I was making is that the sounds generally feel like they’re missing a chunk of the low end of the sound spectrum, they sound quite flat or “treble-y”, independant of what specific sounds you can hear from where.  This is both in the cockpit and in the external view behind the aircraft.  To me it’s quite noticable and very different sound mixing even from the same company’s (amazing) Q400 sounds. 

In any event, will patiently wait for the update and see how that works.

[Bobsk8 12,682]

This is a copy and paste from their Facebook page;  \\

 

Quote

Immersive Audio
April 23 at 12:57pm · 
Four days passed and we can say freely that 737NG CFM Immersion Soundpack HD is a huge success. Many positive reviews all around, and we will not stop on that!
Around 4% (+/- 1%) of users reported issues with the sounds, and we are already planning to provide an easy fix for those issues in the upcoming update.
These numbers honestly are very good, considering how many variables are in the game. Hundreds of different sound setups, configs, speakers, headphones, drivers, and whatnot. It is literally impossible to create an addon that will work perfectly on every single system out there. The same goes for aircraft, camera, scenery and other soundpack addons. That is why we all provide a constant support.
Now to throw some details about the upcoming update.
To be precise, two issues are the reported the most - barely audible external engine sounds due to loud default NGX fuel pump and apu sounds, and very silent engine sounds from behind the plane due to the nature of those sounds. They have strong low frequencies (bass) with not much pronounced middle frequencies, and users with sound systems that are specifically calibrated and have no low frequency response like usual 5.1 or 2.1 system with sub-woofers, will logically report very silent sounds behind the plane.
Third issue is an abrupt stop of external engine startup sound.
The plan is simple - we will include the ALTERNATIVE folder with fixes for all issues.
In addition we will include the compatibility for the NGX expansion (600/700 models) and "just in case" compatibility with winglet model. There is a chance that some users have custom soundpacks just for that model, so we must also cover it in the folders.
As you know, we never released a soundpack and watched the community enjoy or end feeling disappointed. If we can reduce that 4-5% to 0%, that would be perfect.
Thank you all for your constant feedback and support!

 

[regis9 4,013]

Thanks, it will be interesting to see the update as I do have a functioning subwoofer on a 5.1 setup (with the rear speakers disabled).

[Pe11e 812]

After "no low frequencies" posts, I must explain why and how:

this is the thing - majority of flight simmers got used to bassy engine sounds that could be heard in the passenger cabin. Majority will refer exactly to this experience, as 99% never been in the cockpit during the flight. There is a reason why we are working with 3 real world pilots, to get a good and usually comprehensive feedback about the sounds of engines as heard on the real flight deck. Also, most of the soundpacks have sounds that are recorded in the passenger cabin. And as you know, the airplane is operated from the cockpit (BA DUM TSS). 🙂
We recorded our sounds in a different way and also processed them in a unique way so we could get a green light from real pilots, and only after that we can say that the sounds are realistic and accurate.
Now you wonder - what if real pilots are wrong or have a bad hearing? Well, we can't do anything about it if that is true (I highly doubt that tbh). Logically we will trust pilots experience and opinions, not the ones from simmers that have a different experience from the passenger cabin. Our goal was to develop the most realistic CFM56-7B soundpack out there, and only way to do that is to contact real world pilots, and also by listening to tons of recorded footage, mix the informations together and use it in development.
One thing is for sure, we can't create the soundpack that will be perfect for every user and every sound system out there, it's impossible. That is why you watch promo video first to get the exact idea how it sounds. I'm now not sure why some of users purchased the soundpack after watching the promo and probably realised that there is no bass? That is like purchasing a car that you didn't liked during the test drive.

Nevertheless, I will talk to the pilots again regarding the low frequencies, but I'm afraid they will say the same thing - there isn't any coming from the engines. If they somehow changed their mind, we will update the sounds, but it could take time since literally 50% of the soundpack must be re-done in that case

Please be kind and take a detailed listen to this video clip. Audio here is pretty good, far from GoPro and smartphone quality. If you hear bass from the engines in this clip, I will be surprised really. You can only hear the rumble like sound from the thrust, which is included in the soundpack.  I'm using professional monitoring headphones and also usual in-ear earphones, plus 2.1 system, so you can't say I didn't tested it in various sources. Not to mention beta testers.
 

Best regards,

Edited April 29, 2018 by Pe11e

[Bobsk8 12,682]

That is what I thought. Simmers ( the big experts on aviation) who have most likely never flown in the cockpit of a real 737, know exactly how it is supposed to sound, and the pilots that fly them every day for a living don't...

 

LOL..... Can't make this stuff up.  

[regis9 4,013]

1 hour ago, Pe11e said:

That is why you watch promo video first to get the exact idea how it sounds. I'm now not sure why some of users purchased the soundpack after watching the promo and probably realised that there is no bass? That is like purchasing a car that you didn't liked during the test drive.

Thanks for the response.  I my experience it's pretty hard to get a true sense of the full sound of a sound pack from a youtube video, the sounds are often flatter and less fullsome than they are in-sim.  I've seen quite a few disclaimers to that effect for videos of sound packs.

1 hour ago, Pe11e said:

 You can only hear the rumble like sound from the thrust, which is included in the soundpack.  I'm using professional monitoring headphones and also usual in-ear earphones, plus 2.1 system, so you can't say I didn't tested it in various sources. Not to mention beta testers.

My issue is that with both a 2.1 setup and headphones I can't hear the rumble sound from the thrust.  That's what I'm trying to get at, not that I expect to be able to hear the full exhaust sound from the cockpit as if I'm sitting behind the wing, but I should be able to hear some rumble and something lower in pitch.  The video you posted has far more rumble than I'm getting with this sound set.  I also have a lot more low end sound in the default NGX soundset which I assume is also based on real life recordings and pilot testing etc.

Also, in the exterior view I hear very little sound when behind the engines, again making me wonder why I'm not getting bass tones that seem like they should be there.

Edited April 30, 2018 by regis9

[regis9 4,013]

Need to post a follow up.  Reading this thread and wondering why few (if any) others seem to be having the same issues I'm having, I decided to re-install the sounds.  Perhaps I did something wrong before, but things do sounds better to me now, as I would expect.  I can actually hear the exhaust rumble now when behind the plane...I'm going to get a few more flights in with the sounds to get accustomed to them.

[mpw8679 428]

3 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

That is what I thought. Simmers ( the big experts on aviation) who have most likely never flown in the cockpit of a real 737, know exactly how it is supposed to sound, and the pilots that fly them every day for a living don't...

 

LOL..... Can't make this stuff up.  

Self esteem issues?

[mikie46 1]

Well im not convinced that mine is working as it should for one, i find it hard to believe that there are ONLY 21 sound files in the pmdg/various folder after installation. How is it possible to cover all the sounds using 21 files? My backup directory has over 90.

Err terrible installation documentation. Not for the dyslexi!

 

D:\Flight Sim\P3D Core\Sound\PMDG\737NGXu\Various\* - has only 21 files after installation

D:\Flight Sim\P3D Core\Sound\PMDG\737NGXu\Various.BAK\* has 178 files in the backup folder?

Edited September 9, 2022 by mikie46