Farewell FSW

[Bobsk8 12,494]

5 minutes ago, WotanUK said:

I really don't understand this.  If that is your desire may i suggest GTA V, you can even get out of the plane and rob a car or play tennis.

There is no way the community is to blame for the demise of FSW, i will bet most of us bought FSW, i certainly did, the first day it was released; believe me, i would have dropped P3D with no hesitation had FSW offered me anything beyond a 64-Bit version of FSX without the add-on support.  I am not sure why Mr Wrob thinks we are all ultra partisan, i have XP (albeit XP10), P3D, FSW, FSW, FSX SE, DCS, IL2, Falcon 4.  I want a great sim, if that was XP i would be using XP.

I think that the really sad part of this is that the career system actually was something that interested me and appeared to offer something that P3D doesn't and probably wouldn't offer.  In my opinion DTG have probably dropped this before they really gave it a chance

It took X Plane over 20 years to get to the point that it is now. Do you really think that DTG would have even invested half that time to get their product beyond the beta stage? 

[WotanUK 289]

1 minute ago, J van E said:

Seriously...? Are you kidding? I totally don't understand that you don't understand. Because I can understand it if someone likes to have the entire world to fly in. Then why is it impossible to understand there also are people who don't care about that? And what does this have to do with robbing a car or playing tennis? 😕Is anyone who sims in a different way than you prefer a childish gamer or whatever? Really odd reply.

I was joking...but to take your orginal response, you said that and i quote "I rather have a tiny but awesome area to fly around in than a mediocre entire world. Period".  So i was saying (again half joking) that the world in GTA V is just that, tiny but incredibly detailed, to the point that you can *even* get out of the plane (that you are simulating) and play tennis or steal a car.

[Bobsk8 12,494]

1 minute ago, J van E said:

Seriously...? Are you kidding? I totally don't understand that you don't understand. Because I can understand it if someone likes to have the entire world to fly in. Then why is it impossible to understand there also are people who don't care about that? And what does this have to do with robbing a car or playing tennis? 😕Is anyone who sims in a different way than you prefer a childish gamer or whatever? Really odd reply.

I joined Pilotedge twice over the years and after a month or two, got tired of flying in such a small area of the West Coast. I fly for an excellent VA now, and every morning, I check our their schedule and usually find a flight from the last airport I landed at to an airport that I haven't flown to yet. Get to fly all over the US, Canada, Mexico, Europe, etc seeing different airports, scenery, approaches, etc.   .  Flying in a restricted area, to me, is like getting a drivers license, but the only place I can drive is in a parking lot. 

[WotanUK 289]

3 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

It took X Plane over 20 years to get to the point that it is now. Do you really think that DTG would have even invested half that time to get their product beyond the beta stage? 

No, but also i don't think that they had too.  The ESP base is a superb piece of software, they made it 64-Bit (a great move) but then decided to strip out IFR and Airliner flying...why???  They didn't have to do this, they chose to remove something that has featured in MS flight sims for years.  Even that wouldn't really have mattered if they had offered something else; perhaps something like the very career system they have been implementing.  They gave us an upgraded FSX engine, but less functionality than FSX had in at launch, 14 years ago.

[Wobbie 938]

Erm... In my sim, I like to drive around to check out scenery, & I can sail or 'drive' my aircraft carrier & my selection of boats & submarines I'm certainly not a lessor simmer than those that just fly PMDG or 'by the numbers'. Actually pilot-less planes are very much simulated.. They are called AI planes.

I just do not need the latest, be it 64bit et al. My PC therefore also does not needed to be replaced to cover memory overheads.

[Wobbie 938]

7 minutes ago, WotanUK said:

 The ESP base is a superb piece of software, they made it 64-Bit (a great move) but then decided to strip out IFR and Airliner flying...why???  They didn't have to do this, they chose to remove something that has featured in MS flight sims for years.  Even that wouldn't really have mattered if they had offered something else; perhaps something like the very career system they have been implementing.  They gave us an upgraded FSX engine, but less functionality than FSX had in at launch, 14 years ago.

By the way, DTG used the FSX engine, the entertainment version, NOT ESP, which LM is using. 

DTG had permission to use either the FSX or the Flight engines, as these are the entertainment engines, ESP is the 'professional' engine.

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, WotanUK said:

I was joking...but to take your orginal response, you said that and i quote "I rather have a tiny but awesome area to fly around in than a mediocre entire world. Period".  So i was saying (again half joking) that the world in GTA V is just that, tiny but incredibly detailed, to the point that you can *even* get out of the plane (that you are simulating) and play tennis or steal a car.

Aaaaaaaah, sorry for not getting the joke immediately... 😉

[Christopher Low 5,332]

Quote

Flying in a restricted area, to me, is like getting a drivers license, but the only place I can drive is in a parking lot.

If the parking lot was superbly detailed with lots of interesting nooks and crannies, and the world beyond that was flat, empty and featureless.......I would choose the parking lot. In short, if a flight simulator could not provide me with the level of detail that I require, then I would not be flight simming at all. This is exactly why I used Flight Unlimited 3 (plus the Flight Unlimited 2 San Francisco scenery) exclusively between 1999 and 2008. The level of detail (and the overall quality) of Microsoft Flight Simulator in those days was nowhere near good enough to satisfy me.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Christopher Low

[torium 207]

2 hours ago, WotanUK said:

I want a great sim, if that was XP i would be using XP.

Exactly. Spot on.

But we hardly get it without anyone being willing to invest and take chances. DTG was willing to try - and are now in retrospect ridiculed for their decent attempt. It is claimed massive that they were too greedy. Cryss (DTG) answered: "When people say DTG are greedy  . Mate do you know how much it costs to make a flight sim xD."

Who is the next one who dares to bet their money in this mud?

Edited April 26, 2018 by torium

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

Sandbox games make far more sense for multiplayer. In that context the interaction with other players and NPCs is penultimate and the surroundings are only there as eye candy. 

[WotanUK 289]

3 minutes ago, torium said:

But we hardly get it without anyone being willing to invest and take chances. DTG was willing to try - and are now in retrospect ridiculed for their decent attempt. It is claimed massive that they were too greedy. Cryss (DTG) answered: "When people say DTG are greedy  . Mate do you know how much it costs to make a flight sim xD. Suddenly everyone is a business analyst."

Who is the next one who dares to bet their money in this mud?

Where they?  What i took away from FSW (as a day-one purchaser) is that they did the absolute bear minimum and pushed the sim out of the door.  It's no good saying that "everyone is a business analyst".  In short and i have no wish to come across as abrupt or rude, quite frankly i don't care about DTGs business model, i care that i can sim with Aircraft of my choice in a believable environment.  If FSW had offered me this, then i would have been happy to move from P3D to FSW and take the money i spend on addons with me.

When it first came out on Steam, it was hammered with bad reviews and whilst (for the most part) i did see the points they were making i decided at the time to write a positive review, detailing the good points and berating the community for the mob handed way it approached it; but damn it was hard, i'll never forget taking off from Manchester on the very first day of the FSW release and looking at the runway, it looked like polished white marble.

Your last sentance again puts the blame on the community...what should we have done differently, i purchased it, i didn't buy any of the DLC because it didn't interest me in the slightest, i'll bet a significant portion of the community were waiting for more features to buy it, IFR and tubeliners for the majority. 

I mean (and this question isn't aimed at you in particular) but what should the community have done differently?  Should i have purchased the DLC just to support DTG even though i wasn't interested, should we have been willing to wait...well at least on this one we were willing.  DTG just didn't get the numbers they required, perhaps they should have done more market research?

[Wobbie 938]

Maybe they were excited with their success with FSX:SE, & with the communitee's excitement & wanting more.

So they tried modding the FSX core & asked for their communities help for ideas, & got them to pay to become beta testers.

Nobody thought they were greedy them! Well, apart from a developer or two (the less said, the better)

So, those that were optimistic with DTG bought into FSW, hoping to get a better sim.

So, they did not get the numbers that their business plan required -- Not for us to knock their business plan, we did not have a gun held to our heads to buy!

They tried & just could not carry on. Maybe one of the reasons is that our simming world is very fragmented, with developers having to decide as to where their developing energy will go to.. FSX, FSX:SE, P3D in their various versions, X-Plane and others. They will obviously follow the money.

Granted we were a bit confused as to why a large gaming company specialising with Fishing & Train sims, would want to get into flying, they obviously saw a captive market with those on their Steam platform. Maybe their sim target market was blurred.. gamers being converted or serious simmers?

At least they tried..

Long live Flight Simming!

[torium 207]

1 hour ago, WotanUK said:

 In short and i have no wish to come across as abrupt or rude, quite frankly i don't care about DTGs business model, i care that i can sim with Aircraft of my choice in a believable environment.  If FSW had offered me this, then i would have been happy to move from P3D to FSW and take the money i spend on addons with me.

I agree with you. I am not an insider - and therefore I do not know what goes on behind the doors. DTG even say they have conducted an extensive market research. They have also had close contacts with developers with long experience with FSX and P3D. Then DTG have updated FSX to FSX:SE - which gave them profound insight about the software. On top of it all, DTG pointed out several times, quote: "Something we have said time and time again is that we are committed to this for the long run. We are realists, by that I mean we know it will take years to build up this new platform and the infrastructure around it to match the current landscape of flight simulation."

So what went wrong? Did they count on a mass sale during the first year - of an unfinished product? It may not be called realism? I liked the attempt with MS Flight too - so I'm used to suffer defeat in this hobby.

Now I have to move on - that is - go back to old FSX:SE. (But at least I also have Aerofly FS2).

Edited April 26, 2018 by torium

[eelis 42]

On 4/24/2018 at 4:47 PM, skully said:

MS Flight was a gorgeous simulator. Beautiful lighting and scenery.

Too bad DTG or LM didn't pick that title up and run with it instead of FSX. 

FSW always looked a bit odd to me.

It still is, come and join! 😊

-eelis-

[torium 207]

1 hour ago, Wobbie said:

So, they did not get the numbers that their business plan required --

This is what I think seems completely unrealistic. It's almost as if Elon Musk expected to sell his innovation before he had inserted the battery. We'll probably never know.