Froogle's take on FSW and possible impact on P3D

[Ray Proudfoot 8,950]

2 minutes ago, PATCO LCH said:

For some reason I thought he was an Aussie.

Nope, definitely a Brit.

[Luke 782]

7 hours ago, tjstreak said:

Dovetail suing LM strikes me as a dead dog loser.  There has never been a contract between Dovetail and LM.  Both of them had contracts with Microsoft, but not with each other.  Microsoft could conceivably make the claim, but Dovetail really cannot make it on behalf of Microsoft.  Dovetail lacks standing to bring a claim..

This appears to be spot-on correct. DTG has no relationship with L-M and cannot sue to enforce Microsoft's IP rights - only Microsoft can do so. The fact that they have not would strongly suggest that they find the current status quo and potential misuse of the academic license terms acceptable.

My completely uninformed speculation says that they may get a flat cut of each seat sale (in which case they don't care who sells a copy, LM or DTG) or they have an agreement with LM that there is a price floor for the academic version to avoid undercutting the DTG version. If one still cannot make a viable product when competing against something twice or three times the price, not Microsoft's problem.

Cheers!

[fs4fun 366]

39 minutes ago, jon b said:

And is at actually worth getting before it disappears ? Serious question, I run P3DV4, X plane 11,DCS and FS2.

For the price of a  single good quality add on aircraft for P3D FSW appears from its adverts to be offering a nice little selection of quality  GA    Planes to buzzz around in. Or is it best avoided?

 

I think as a curiosity $40 seems a bit expensive. It's not terrible if you like GA piston props, the planes do look really good and recently I did some short VFR hops and found it quite pleasant, though I had to do some config tweaking on my somewhat outdated computer to get it to run acceptably and still have the scenery and weather depiction look good. The rain and snow effects are impressive. There's a lot of missions content, and the payware missions DLC might become available for free. The GPS is somewhat buggy, but you can do instrument flights without ATC. ILS approaches work fine. Maybe if it went on sale, I'd grab it or $20 or less.

[jon b 2,047]

Thank’s Barry , I must admit to being a little intrigued.

Jon

 

[Brian_A_Neuman 198]

I might be looking at the timeline a bit different here...but using this logic creates one MAJOR issue for Dovetail.

Unless I am totally mistaken, Lockheed Martin had P3D with the Academic License LONG before FSW as even announced. And the Academic license had held a fairly constant price since its inception. Therefore, Dovetail marketed their product based on the Academic License price and not the other way around.

It doesn't seem to be a competition issue or ant-trust, or monopoly issues. Dovetail attempted to introduce a relatively new product (probably closer to P3D then X-Plane), in a market that already has die hard followers of both P3D and X-Plane and it will be difficult to get people to move to an entirely new platform when so much is invested in their current platforms (Hence why FSX is still pretty darn popular).

I don't know much about Froogle so I wont pretend to know what his motives are, however, anytime anyone says "X-Plane is the Future" or "P3D is the future" is very narrow minded. We need both to compete with each other, thats the ONLY way that we will get serious advancements in our hobby. Anyone who doesn't realize this is just too darn loyal to a brand or their own opinions rather then reality.

All this being said, I never flew FSW, and it looks like I never will. It was a tough market to break into. This is not LM's fault or Laminar Researches fault. The product simply failed. Filing a lawsuit would be a tough one to win, as the onus would be on Dovetail to prove that Lockheed Martin was doing a malicious and anti-competitive business practice and that the practices were illegal. 

Good luck with that.

[FreeBird(Josh) 314]

What a waste a time this thread is.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,950]

9 minutes ago, FreeBird(Josh) said:

What a waste a time this thread is.

It was an intelligent conversation until your post. What on earth possessed you to say that? 🙄

[Jetman67 517]

Its all speculation so i understand the post. Everyone is entitled to an opinion

[Boomer 1,619]

DTG doesn' have pockets deep enough to try and sue a major US defense contractir like LM.  And there's no reason for M$ to care...they're too busy going after the Chinese for software piracy.

[MarkW 1,491]

These are the kind of discussions that I really love to see on Avsim and kudos to the Admins for letting this go on even though we are talking about Licenses and EULA's.  

I am a fan of Froogle and watch is weekly news show regularly as well as his other videos.  Pete can take some extreme positions on things at times so this is in keeping with the way to does things and as an unsponsored YouTuber he is entitled to his opinion.  I don't think it will go anywhere and I think the future with X-Plane, P3D and DCS is actually pretty bright.  I doubt anything will happen with FSW after this....in other words no buyer on the horizon...although the best buyer would actually be Lockheed Martin's group that currently develops P3D but this is not their market.

[Patco Lch 1,465]

20 minutes ago, MarkW said:

These are the kind of discussions that I really love to see on Avsim and kudos to the Admins for letting this go on even though we are talking about Licenses and EULA's.  

I am a fan of Froogle and watch is weekly news show regularly as well as his other videos.  Pete can take some extreme positions on things at times so this is in keeping with the way to does things and as an unsponsored YouTuber he is entitled to his opinion.  I don't think it will go anywhere and I think the future with X-Plane, P3D and DCS is actually pretty bright.  I doubt anything will happen with FSW after this....in other words no buyer on the horizon...although the best buyer would actually be Lockheed Martin's group that currently develops P3D but this is not their market.

Me too. I love following controversial subjects important to all of us and sometimes they are too quickly tossed in the lock box.

[FreeBird(Josh) 314]

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

It was an intelligent conversation until your post. What on earth possessed you to say that? 🙄

Sorry after reading this thread all day I was just expressing myself and my feelings on the subject. Just not in the same words as others.

[GHarrall 494]

Honestly, who cares what “froogle” thinks? LM certainly won’t.

When the academic licence was launched you don’t think one of the largest defence contractors in the world didn’t dot the i’s and cross the t’s from a legal perspective? They know what they are doing folks! They always have.

All the armchair lawyer discussion and sound bites from a guy with a YouTube channel won’t even register on the radar.......

[kdfw__ 542]

lol, who is this froogle people speak highly of?   just did some google search and  seems the dude's some random vlogger who reads product press releases once per week on yt.  

look, there's no contract between dt and lm.  dt has a contract with ms.  lm has contract with ms.  dt has no standing to go after lm with which it has no contractual relationship.  they can take a shot at ms, good luck.

nerdy flight sim mental bubblegum, all forgotten tomorrow.    

  

[cmpbellsjc 2,960]

1 hour ago, GHarrall said:

Honestly, who cares what “froogle” thinks? LM certainly won’t.

All the armchair lawyer discussion and sound bites from a guy with a YouTube channel won’t even register on the radar.......

 

1 hour ago, kdfw__ said:

lol, who is this froogle people speak highly of?   just did some google search and  seems the dude's some random vlogger who reads product press releases once per week on yt.  

I wouldn’t know this Froogle fellow if he was sitting next to me.

I don’t watch YouTube “experts” because a lot of times they are just giving their opinion and unfortunately a lot of people buy into it like it’s fact. To each their own though, not my cup of tea.