Looks like Steam for P3D - SimStall Announced

[johnnycrockett 43]

The idea itself seems brilliant, even just something to enter all your purchases into and it will notify you and then allow a download of any updates etc. Not too fussed on the settings side of things. Another store front would be interesting but that will then be yet another middleman taking a commission if that is the case? Happy to pay a one time fee for the program to organise the addons though and then continue to buy from developers direct where possible. With more developers creating their own software manager (Orbx, Flightbeam etc), is there as much of a demand for a one stop shop?

Seems archaic but an external drive with all addon installers and an excel spreadsheet with serial numbers has worked well for me but this isn't everyone's cup of tea.

[Bobsk8 12,680]

Last time I checked Steam takes an average of 30% from developers as commission. I am sure that good developers will love that business model.  😋

[TravelRunner404 596]

1 hour ago, Bobsk8 said:

Last time I checked Steam takes an average of 30% from developers as commission. I am sure that good developers will love that business model.  😋

But what does it cost to properly distribute your software to a wide audience?  If I sell a product for $30 I wouldn't be surprised if customer acquisition and servers run me about $9 per sale, taking credit cards is about 3% alone. Don't forget start-up costs of developing  your own channel.  Investors are expensive and debt is never a young businesses friend (Warren Buffet has a few good quotes on this).  The vast majority of businesses that fail in the first 3 years fail with profitable products because they can't scale.  Sure a mature brand with strong recognition and an established customer base might be able to lower that acquisition cost to $3-$5, but when you are small and on a budget cash flow is king.  Distribution channels equal cash!

[Victoroos 205]

why does orbx still install in the root folder anyway? What is that about?

But yeah, it really really depends on adoption of devs.. The tech isn't that hard.. it just needs good integrity checks.

[anden145 2,285]

@Bobsk8 - What's your problem with Steam?! You make it sound like, Steam is the root of all evil?! 

Personally I never had any problems with them. I would rather buy something on Steam, than as a stand-alone product. The process of purchasing, managing, re-installing, auto-updating etc, your purchases is just so much simpler on Steam, IMO. 

A game being sold through the Steam-channel, is definitely an advantage in my book, when deciding whether or nor to purchase a game or application. Steam takes a commision - of course. Whether or not it's (too) high, is something the individual developer takes into consideration.

I agree with @TravelRunner404. The commission you pay to Steam/Valve is money you have to invest anyway, in order to publish, distribute and market the software you're selling... 

[Guest]

I absolutely love Steam and wish all my software was on it. It can't get much easier than with Steam and it works flawlessly. I am sure the ones who don't like it have had some sort of bad experience with it but I absolutely love it. Whenever I have the choice I always go for Steam. 

Concerning Simstall: I think it will only be a success if it will work with ALL available flightsim software, so regardless of developer support. This would obviously mean the dev of Simstall will have to get his hands on EVERY piece of software out there to make it compatible and work with Simstall. That's quite something... Can't imagine that will actually happen. I can also imagine developers suing Simstall for tinkering with their installers... All in all the idea is nice but I am very sceptic. (As always. 😎)

[Litmoose 90]

9 hours ago, TravelRunner404 said:

Perhaps I should have clarified my comparison. It’s clearly not going to be a verbatim copy of Steam, but a similar concept in that it’s a storefront specifically designed for flight simmers.

i think you have to account for the developers flight sim experience. In fact he helped create the Orbx storefront which is miles ahead of any other developer. 

Dont forget simmarket is pretty bad and a 2005 version of the same thing being pitched here and save for a few developers everyone goes through them. I am sure Simmarket doesn’t do it for free. 

Judging by the 15 posts a day on here about a mucked up sim not working right and zero of them saying, “Prepar3d default f22 issues” there just might be an issue with add on development and how the eco system works together that needs a little help  

I am all for this!

None of the addon selling sites do it for free. they take around 30% cut on each sale, which is easy money if you think about it. I think I remember Matt saying on one of his streams simstall will take a much smaller cut

[ideoplastic 86]

8 hours ago, PWJT8D said:

Well said Sethos. This right here is the same reason I'm fully on board with this product. I try my best to keep my addons organized on my HD, and I think I do a pretty good job at it. But if I were ever to have to do a Windows Install or just P3D for that matter, We're talking days, if not a week of getting everything back up and running.

Having to reinstall everything is a long and tedious task and when P3Dv4.2 came out decided to change the way I would tackle this issue. Did a clean OS install and all relevant Microsoft updates, then installed P3D and all the payware aircraft and proceeded to create an image of the whole thing, i.e. OS and P3D. If at some point something goes wrong I can easily restore the PC with the image in less than an hour. Also have made sure that all my installed sceneries are on a separate drive and need not be disturbed. If P3D is on a drive other than C:\ follow the above but then create an image for P3D separately after making the C:\ image. After rebuild just install any other programs you need. 

[pmb 5,137]

16 hours ago, Sethos1988 said:

Once you've got a significant investment into a sim, bought from multiple places, it becomes an absolute nightmare to maintain at one point.

I absolutely agree. Nearly all those discussing here got used to that nightmare over the years (with some even being proud they did) with numerous configurations files scattered thought the system (some of them doubled or even tripled in different places), xml vs. prepar3d.cfg addons, hand-editing entries using your beloved text editor, renaming of .bgl to .bgl.off (to be repeated every time you are forced to re-setup the sim or even the machine - you better make notes), autogen files overwriting each other etc. etc. I confess. I would be completely lost without our forums available, which to follow takes its own time, though.

Some may say it's a touch more easy in XP, and it may be, but even there you have those pretty scripts with a tendency to be incompatible to each other, hand-editing of cryptic custom scenery entries (keep care not to get the order wrong!) and the like.

Seen from the outside, notably by someone to enter the hobby, it is daunting and certainly a factor why flight simulation never takes off to the level it was once at FS5 times.

Kind regards, Michael

[simbol 5,819]

7 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

Last time I checked Steam takes an average of 30% from developers as commission. I am sure that good developers will love that business model.  😋

Same thing when you sell using Simmarket: https://secure.simmarket.com/man_create_account.php, except that if you are not selling exclusively with them they get even more than the figure you are quoting.

If you research a bit you will also find that all Simmarket competitors also charge similar or higher percentage of commission, personally I find 30% - 40% extremely high, my wife have been working in the sale business industry over 20 years and she was shocked when I mentioned to her the potential percentage of sales commissions I would need to pay to sell software using any of these vendors, her own words were: "I have never seen such amount of percentage given as sales commissions, do these market places also offer support to your users?" I laughed when she thought that Simmarket would even dare to try to help customers with any software that I release.

Just my two cents.. 

Regards,
Simbol

 

[ErichB 3,642]

Matt is a simmer like all of us and has designed Simstall to be the easiest and most efficient way to mange your installed addons.  It sounds like a dream come true to me, because maintenance of a bloated sim is a completed pain.

If i remember correctly, Matt being a developer himself, also has a beef with current distribution channels charging developers what they do - and I think made a point of saying that the charge to developers would also be less.

Sounds like win-win to me.

[Bobsk8 12,680]

3 hours ago, Anders Bermann said:

@Bobsk8 - What's your problem with Steam?! You make it sound like, Steam is the root of all evil?! 

Personally I never had any problems with them. I would rather buy something on Steam, than as a stand-alone product. The process of purchasing, managing, re-installing, auto-updating etc, your purchases is just so much simpler on Steam, IMO. 

A game being sold through the Steam-channel, is definitely an advantage in my book, when deciding whether or nor to purchase a game or application. Steam takes a commision - of course. Whether or not it's (too) high, is something the individual developer takes into consideration.

I agree with @TravelRunner404. The commission you pay to Steam/Valve is money you have to invest anyway, in order to publish, distribute and market the software you're selling... 

Here is the problem I had with Steam. I had a Trainsim, that required a great deal of tinkering to get it and the add ons to work correctly ( we flight simmers call it tweaking) Then lo and behold, Steam does one of their " Lets see if anything you got from us has been altered in any way, and we will return it to the way it was when you got it" checks, during the night. I get up the next day, and what I had fixed is broken again. So the end result is when I fixed something, I had to save a backup of what I fixed, so when Steam decided it didn't like something and changed it, I could change it back until the next time. 

Been simming for decades, and frankly, I don't like someone messing with the files on my PC period. I think Steam is probably OK for gamers, but I don't consider my self a gamer at this point. 

[Chuck_Jodry-VJPL 663]

Building a product is the beginning , building trust is harder still , If the development community gets behind the project then there is a chance it will work , We devs have been stung before by retailers who do not send royalties or reports of sales , often and continually, by big names and small. He may well have a clean reputation but needs to overcome our trepidation over the myriad transgressions of contracts both past and current .

That is not going to be easy , second ,  established developers have their own websites that retail directly and avoid the distribution fees entirely when sales are through their own portal , I would expect them to maintain their current set of distributors making Simstall  yet one more portal.

Bottom line , he has quite a selling job to convince developers that this isn't just another portal.  

 

Best CJ

 

[188AHC 2,138]

9 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

Last time I checked Steam takes an average of 30% from developers as commission. I am sure that good developers will love that business model.  😋

Why is that your concern , Bob?  What Steam does as their business model is none of our business. Vendors will either choose to market through them or not. If they don't choose to do so then I'm sure they will  provide another method to purchase their add-ons.  Again, the same as FSW, no one will force you to work through Steam. As this is all speculation at this point, I don't see any reason to get your feathers ruffled.

 

 

[Bobsk8 12,680]

1 hour ago, 188AHC said:

Why is that your concern , Bob?  What Steam does as their business model is none of our business. Vendors will either choose to market through them or not. If they don't choose to do so then I'm sure they will  provide another method to purchase their add-ons.  Again, the same as FSW, no one will force you to work through Steam. As this is all speculation at this point, I don't see any reason to get your feathers ruffled.

 

 

 I never said I was concerned, where did you read that? I simply stated that it is well known that is what Steam charges, and I can't see many developers that market through their own websites, flocking to steam. Stay calm, nobody is attacking anyone, just stating a fact. 

Edited May 18, 2018 by Bobsk8