EICAS: FMC vs FMC MESSAGE?

[Qavion2 39]

The 777 does have these white COMM messsages related to the FMC. Have these been incorporated into the 744 software? Or is this only on the 747-8?

[berts 97]

On 5/25/2018 at 11:16 PM, jon b said:

I think you maybe thinking about the EICAS memo messages“ ATC MESSAGE”  or “ACARS MESSAGE” which are in white.

There’s the Amber “FMC LEFT”. “FMC RIGHT” and “FMC MESSAGE” EICAS advisories but no EICAS or memo message which just states “FMC”, to the best of my knowledge. Jon Bunting

Jon,

I agree with your comment that these are the only three FMC EICAS Advisories on the actual B744; and only ">FMC MESSAGE" is careted.  The other two (FMC LEFT/RIGHT) are covered in the QRH and if you end up losing both FMC's the workload will definitely increase. Unfortunately, this isn't helped if you are using the spilt standby instruments in the QOTS, because there are currently no white bugs on the Standby ASI or Altimeter on which to set the Flap speeds and Decision Altitude for the approach and landing.

Bertie    

[jon b 2,047]

On 5/27/2018 at 12:47 PM, kevinh said:

No, it's definitely "FMC" in white. Perhaps it's only in the 777?

Ah, OK thanks Kevin, I’m not familiar with the 777.

On 5/27/2018 at 7:08 PM, berts said:

Jon,

I agree with your comment that these are the only three FMC EICAS Advisories on the actual B744; and only ">FMC MESSAGE" is careted.  The other two (FMC LEFT/RIGHT) are covered in the QRH and if you end up losing both FMC's the workload will definitely increase. Unfortunately, this isn't helped if you are using the spilt standby instruments in the QOTS, because there are currently no white bugs on the Standby ASI or Altimeter on which to set the Flap speeds and Decision Altitude for the approach and landing.

Bertie    

I’ve raised a ticket as suggested. Support were most helpful and say they are going to mention it to the technical team to take a look.

I think (hope) everybody is agreement that the  EICAS  “FMC” should in fact be “FMC MESSAGE” , but now I’ve opened another can of worms as to wether there should be a caret > or not.

My machine doesn’t caret the “FMC MESSAGE” advisory wether this is software version or company specific I don’t know.One could say the my company is all stick and no caret, however I personally couldn’t comment !

 

Jon Bunting

[berts 97]

11 hours ago, jon b said:

Ah, OK thanks Kevin, I’m not familiar with the 777.

I’ve raised a ticket as suggested. Support were most helpful and say they are going to mention it to the technical team to take a look.

I think (hope) everybody is agreement that the  EICAS  “FMC” should in fact be “FMC MESSAGE” , but now I’ve opened another can of worms as to wether there should be a caret > or not.

My machine doesn’t caret the “FMC MESSAGE” advisory wether this is software version or company specific I don’t know.One could say the my company is all stick and no caret, however I personally couldn’t comment !

 

Jon Bunting

I am fairly certain that Boeing will have standardised their basic EICAS messages, so my guess is that the ">FMC MESSAGE" will be careted on all B744 aircraft. Like you I'm not that familiar with the B777, but why would Boeing want to change something if it works well and re-invent the wheel?  As you probably know, all the Caret symbol means is that there are no procedural steps for the alert message.

Bertie   

[kevinh 409]

12 hours ago, berts said:

I am fairly certain that Boeing will have standardised their basic EICAS messages, so my guess is that the ">FMC MESSAGE" will be careted on all B744 aircraft. Like you I'm not that familiar with the B777, but why would Boeing want to change something if it works well and re-invent the wheel?  As you probably know, all the Caret symbol means is that there are no procedural steps for the alert message.

Bertie   

The white FMC status for data uplinks was an additional feature in the 777, not redesigning the wheel. FMC MESSAGE is the same as the 747.

I don’t remember seeing a caret next to FMC MESSAGE in 747v3 but I can’t be sure. Will watch out for it. 

[jon b 2,047]

On 5/31/2018 at 10:41 PM, berts said:

I am fairly certain that Boeing will have standardised their basic EICAS messages, so my guess is that the ">FMC MESSAGE" will be careted on all B744 aircraft. Like you I'm not that familiar with the B777, but why would Boeing want to change something if it works well and re-invent the wheel?  As you probably know, all the Caret symbol means is that there are no procedural steps for the alert message.

Bertie   

Looking at the current QRH there is the following entry...

FMC MESSAGE 

condition: an alert message is in the CDU scratchpad.

1 check FMC alert message in the CDU scratchpad.

corrective action may be required.

 

So they have in fact now added a procedural step, which would account for the removal of the caret. I agree this should be standard across all aircraft.

My guess would be it crept in with the adoption of CPDLC and PBCS over the years, but I can’t say I noticed when.

Jon

[berts 97]

10 hours ago, jon b said:

Looking at the current QRH there is the following entry...

FMC MESSAGE 

condition: an alert message is in the CDU scratchpad.

1 check FMC alert message in the CDU scratchpad.

corrective action may be required.

 

So they have in fact now added a procedural step, which would account for the removal of the caret. I agree this should be standard across all aircraft.

My guess would be it crept in with the adoption of CPDLC and PBCS over the years, but I can’t say I noticed when.

Jon

This is very interesting, because I know of at least one B744 operator that does not have a QRH procedure for this EICAS message and that is why the Caret (>) is present in their >FMC MESSAGE.  As you say, Jon, the difference in the format of this same message might be explained by the later introduction of a QRH procedure when CPDLC and PBCS came in, or they might both be present on different operators.  In any event, the (>) FMC MESSAGE is rather basic and ought to be self-explanatory to all B744 qualified pilots, so I am rather surprised it needs a QRH procedure; but then flying and navigation was less reliant on computers and their messages only a few years ago!  

I have considerable sympathy for the PMDG development team, who must find it very difficult trying to model as accurately as they do all of the different Boeing aircraft and airline configurations that are available in their Ops Center.

Bertie 

[jon b 2,047]

Evening Bertie,

Of course doing it by the book then now, every time a FMC MESSAGE EICAS pops up the correct response should be to call for the FMC MESSAGE QRH checklist! Which is ludicrous!

Just been up over Ireland  doing a standby navigation exercise on the PMDG 74, I failed both FMCs, interestingly I got the EICAS : “FMC”  rather than the expected FMC LEFT or FMC RIGHT, but then shortly afterwards I received the EICAS “>FMC MESSAGE” triggered by the fail light on the CDU I think.

So there is a >FMC MESSAGE Hidden in the programming somewhere!

Jon

Edited June 2, 2018 by jon b

[berts 97]

23 minutes ago, jon b said:

Evening Bertie,

Of course doing it by the book then now, every time a FMC MESSAGE EICAS pops up the correct response should be to call for the FMC MESSAGE QRH checklist! Which is ludicrous!

Just been up over Ireland  doing a standby navigation exercise on the PMDG 74, I failed both FMCs, interestingly I got the EICAS : “FMC”  rather than the expected FMC LEFT or FMC RIGHT, but then shortly afterwards I received the EICAS “>FMC MESSAGE” triggered by the fail light on the CDU I think.

So there is a >FMC MESSAGE Hidden in the programming somewhere!

Jon

I knew the Careted message should be there somewhere!  I would be interested to know if your QRH procedure for "FMC MESSAGE" is real world or not. 

Logically, with both FMC's failed you would think Boeing would have produced a "FMC BOTH" message, but this is not the case on any B744 variant as far as I am aware.  I hope you enjoyed your standby nav exercise because of all the non-normal procedures the failure of both FMC's is potentially one of the most unusual and demanding.  All you have to work with are the MENU pages, Alternate Navigation, RADIO, IRS, IRS PROGRESS and IRS LEGS.

Bertie 

Edited June 2, 2018 by berts
Repetition

[kevinh 409]

For me, FMC MESSAGE has a caret as expected. However I was able to produce the FMC message (without caret) repeatably. During pre-flight I deliberately entered a low fuel quantity, got INSUFFICIENT FUEL in the scratchpad which triggered >FMC MESSAGE as expected. Then I added a SID which created an UNABLE NEXT ALTITUDE prompt (which would also have trigged the FMC MESSAGE prompt had there not already been one). EICAS added FMC as below:

FMC
>FMC MESSAGE

When I cleared the scratchpad it removed "FMC" leaving me with an uncancellable >FMC MESSAGE.

Looks to me like this may be a bug that exists when there are two or more FMC scratchpad messages simultaneously.

Edited June 2, 2018 by kevinh

[jon b 2,047]

Yes, there’s something amiss there. The EICAS advisory ‘FMC’ doesn’t exist on the real plane , but is being presented in the sim where there should be FMC MESSAGE.

Failing a FMC should give either FMC LEFT or FMC RIGHT on the EICAS but is again bringing up “FMC’.

Not a major issue and I’m sure it’ll get looked at in due course.

Again the fact the FMC MESSAGE has a caret is historically correct at the time of modelling, the real world aircraft now no longer has the caret, but I wouldn’t expect PMDG to be keeping abreast of real world software modifications like that. 

I’m sure there won’t be many real world crews who have noticed to removal of the caret.

Cheers

Jon Bunting

 

[Raphael_Chacon 42]

Having the FMC Message.    I read that its got to do with panel states corrupted..... But not sure what to do.... because that was on the old 747

Edited August 16, 2018 by Raphael_Chacon

[Raphael_Chacon 42]

Did not work loading Dark panel state....i deleted any other save and kept the defaults.... loaded the dark one, and continued.  Nope... still comming out.   I read about Chris advice so i will try after my flight:

"There is a know condition which will trigger the FMC message and does not clear it. See below. We are aware about this and is investigated

With both CDUs on MENU page, turn on the IRS's and wait until ">FMC MESSAGE" appears on EICAS. Scratchpad displays "SET IRS POSITION" which disappears when position is entered. However, EICAS ">FMC MESSAGE" message persists

The correct way to do it is  with captain's CDU on POS INIT page, turn on the IRS's and wait until yellow "FMC" appears on EICAS. Scratchpad displays "SET IRS POSITION" which disappears when position is entered. EICAS "FMC" message also clears."

Lets see what happens....  this is a surprise for me, considering we are now on the new version....

[Raphael_Chacon 42]

Not working neither.... FMC Msg is still there...

[Olympic260 415]

3 hours ago, Raphael_Chacon said:

Not working neither.... FMC Msg is still there...

Use the default panel state when loading the plane. Ie the one with engines running. Shutdown the plane based on that status and save the new panel state. Use this one from now one.

 

Panel states are going to be reworked for the next big update,