paulyg123

Is it OK to cheat a little on an approach?

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When doing two approaches on my PMDG737, I find it a little difficult (and unreasonable) to fly the KLGA Expressway 31 and the Tegucigalpa RNAV 02 exactly as published.  I live near KLGA and see planes having at least 1 mile straight into RW31.  The KLGA Visual 31 chart has you completing the turn almost at the threshold.   It seems planes go a bit wider than published.  Same with the MHTG (honduras Teguigalpa) RNAV 02 approach. The chart has you start making a 100 degree left turn at TG011 which is a tight turn 3/4 miles from the runway.  I know there is very low terrain on the right side, but I see some 737 and 757's turning with 25 seconds of straight flight into RW 20.  Thus, it seems they complete the turn to 018 about 1 mile before the runway.  Most planes into these airports are regionals than can do tight turns at lower speeds, do jets like a 737 get a bit more leeway on tight approaches??

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One might say that you're only cheating yourself... 🙂 !  That said, to answer your question, IMHO it is absolutely okay to cheat a little on any approach... it's a great way to learn and get better!

The KLGA Runway 31 Expressway Visual Approach used to be a favorite approach for me, and so far as you follow the waypoints and visual cues on the chart (The Tanks are not present even with the Drewsdecki (SP?) New York scenery, but that's okay as the turn point is a waypoint (DIALS).  You will absolutely be able to see the park if you have ORBX Global and the expressway is accurate if you have ORBX Vector - which makes the approach even more fun!

The biggest deal with the approach is that the airspace is congested given the proximity to KJFK and KEWR (especially KJFK for Runway 13/31) and you don't want to encroach on the KJFK Class Bravo.  But it's a visual so there is absolutely some leeway in the way you fly it, especially OFFLINE or online without ATC control.  Also, on such an approach you're going to want to fly it with full flaps and a slower speed that you might fly other approaches.  This should help you tremendously with the turns.

If you have the Majestic Dash 8 Q400 or similar aircraft, that would be a great way to learn this really fun approach.

While I'm at it, there is some additional freeware scenery that will add to the immersion and realism for this approach if you're using FSX or P3D (any version).  It's called Flushing Meadows and it's located in the AVSIM Library.  If you can't find it let me know and I'll upload it to DropBox for you.

So now you have me fired up about shooting this approach, so I'm going to fly it tomorrow!  I have the latest version of ImagineSim's KLGA and having tested all KLGA addon scenery I have to say that this scenery is by far the best.  One thing though, it's best to disable any KJFK Scenery you have before flying into ImagineSim's KLGA... I don't and have no problems with frame rates, but others I know have.

Anyway, I wasn't really sure what your other questions were as you already seemed to have a good understanding of the approach, but I hope the information I've provided will help to increase your enjoyment of the flying this excellent approach.

Next... try the River Visual at KDCA and then the RNAV Radius to Fix Runway 13 at Boeing field!

 

Best wishes.

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Go ahead and "cheat" across the north bank of the Potomac on the KDCA River Visual in the real world and see how that works out ;-). 

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, paulyg123 said:

I live near KLGA and see planes having at least 1 mile straight into RW31. 

Looking at the expressway visual chart, it appears to me that you should be rolling out of your turn to final over Citi Field... that would correlate with what you observe first hand.

Agree with Andrew, a little cheat into P51 will end up with a call from Tower to please come visit for a talk as a minimum and probable license suspension.  As a rule, never cheat on an approach.  Realistically, no one expects your ground track over Citi Field to be exactly as published and the approach designers have built in some leeway to allow for variance but your goal should be to fly it as published and let the wind god be responsible for any variations.

One of my favorite RNP approaches is the RNP33 at PANC coming in from the Southeast one completes a descending 330-deg turn rolling out on a 5 mile final.  The first time I shot this one was at mins, where I was IMC until I saw the REILs when over runway 07R.  I must have grinned for 20 minutes after that arrival.

Edited by downscc

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9 hours ago, downscc said:

RNP33 at PANC

Much more better than the ILS07L (?) Circle to RWY33 from back in the day.  Always deep nights and seemed like it was always day 8 of a 10 day road trip.  

Try it sometime at night in the B744 with no A/P and the weather down to Circling minimums. Oh and did I mention that base is going to be downwind. ROFL.,

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Haha the first time I saw that ANC RNP 33 approach was real world when it was a newish procedure.  We were descending on the WITTI and got the runway change.  Loaded it up and looked at the spaghetti on our NDs and went "what the hell is wrong with this thing?"  :biggrin:

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This thread has given me a few tips on fun approaches to try. Thanks!

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On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 7:37 PM, paulyg123 said:

 Same with the MHTG (honduras Teguigalpa) RNAV 02 approach. The chart has you start making a 100 degree left turn at TG011 which is a tight turn 3/4 miles from the runway.  I know there is very low terrain on the right side, but I see some 737 and 757's turning with 25 seconds of straight flight into RW 20.  Thus, it seems they complete the turn to 018 about 1 mile before the runway.  Most planes into these airports are regionals than can do tight turns at lower speeds, do jets like a 737 get a bit more leeway on tight approaches??

AAL flies/flew B757s in there. 

My neighbor flies for another airline and they have special visual procedures.  It is a Captain only approach and the Captain must be checked out by a check airman before flying in there.  I have flown the RWY02 approach in their B739 Level-D and it is a very demanding approach.    Visually it is all about landmarks.  If not on the ground by the first turnoff it is a mandatory go around. 🙂

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