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QW787 P3Dv4 - first impressions?

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Last night I had time to set up a flight to run overnight so I sent my 787 on a 16+ hour jaunt CYUL-ZSPD.  It’s actually just past the halfway point now so I’ll finish my flight when I get home from work.

My initial impressions from C&D to cruise level are that it looks great, sounds great, works as I would expect. The 787 itself is a very cool plane and I’m going to enjoy learning its nuances. It got enough Boeing familiarity so I’m not totally lost, but enough difference from earlier boeings to make it interesting.

One minor annoyance is that if you install both the old and new Air Canada 788 liveries they have the same name so P3D doesn’t allow that.  It’s an easy fix though.

All in all a good first impression and we’ll see where we go from here.

Edited by regis9
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Dave

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48 minutes ago, vhufo said:

You walk into a car yard, brand new car sitting there.

 

Asking full price for it.

 

Looks pretty, but the salesman says, " Yes its brand new, but the Cruise Control isn't working, there's a bug in it. I tell you what, buy it at full price, test it out for us and report back".

 

How many of you would buy that car?

 

When has this become acceptable in our society?

More like buying a simulation of a new car, from a small dedicated team who are all fans of cars, and who has spent time studying the “some specific part of the body” out of themselves at how the car works only to run into problems overcoming the issues with a platform decades old.

That being said, showstopper bugs that have been identified should be worked on fixing. 

 

Atleast you know that they exist.

 

Edited by Sam
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47 minutes ago, MarkW said:

I have spent too much time wondering why people are paying twitch streamers.  These same people will complain about the price of every addon and then throw $50 to some guy flying a plane online and talking nonsense for 4 hours.  I really baffles me.

Not to go off topic but from watching his streams his audience is mainly kids, teens and young adults from the UK and Europe. His viewer count goes down when it gets late in the UK. You can tell by the language they use or the questions they ask that it’s kids. Many of them will complain about the price of addons because there parents won’t give them the money to buy it yet they donate. I guess if you like getting slammed in the chat or by the host, than that’s the place to be. He has a target audience that’s for sure and they don’t mind donating. On the other hand Chewwy94 runs a cleaner operation which I find enjoyable to watch and users behave themselves. 


Dan

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2 hours ago, F737NG said:

Too many of us keep accepting higher prices for unfinished products.

Finished products don't exist anymore because of the complexities of the interactions between the sim and the others addons included on the computer.

Nobody is able to imagine all the combination to create a perfect aircraft for anybody.

Sorry, all products are unfinished because the sim is unfinished too...

When paying a addon, it is a part (for me) of money for development of our hobby. Most creators make incredible efforts to give us the "best of".

Look backward... the evolution of quality is fantastic.

Mark, a happy simmer today.

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24 minutes ago, David Roch said:

What are you comparing exactly??

He compares two companies that SELL a product for their benefit called economic income. We (the simming community) should finally stop to stick in the ages where enthusiasts developed an addon for free for other enthusiast and excuses such as "no time", "private life", "to big workload", "only minor bugs" and all this stuff perfectly OK for freeware... It is a business nowadays, and no matter how big it is, how many millions of dollars you earn, the same basic rules should apply. It sounds harsh, but if a developer can not cope with todays business harshness, he should consider doing again freeware (maybe with a donation system) or change field. But he should NOT trying to sell something that is as bugged as 9 months before (no matter how severe those bugs are...) and then be surprised about the reactions you get nowadays when you SELL something to more and more demanding customers... But, honestly, QW is not the only flightsim addon developer obviously still trying to profit from the naive attitude some simmers still have (see post above).

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Greetings, Chris

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Aren’t bugs subjective to users systems? Myself and another user who recently did clean installs of windows 10 and P3D4.2 have not had any issues with the 787 so far like some of the reports. Yet I know of two others who had CTD, one at departure and another at cruise. I know for a fact that the other two folks are way overdue for a clean install, I’ve seen there systems and know the history of there rigs.

Things like hardware, software, drivers, windows version, overclocking, addons play a big factor. There are so many different configurations out there your not going to get a good idea of what still needs to be fixed based a handful of beta testers. I’m sure many of the items will be addressed. The 787 is a different beast. Even with all my PMDG time I still had to slow down to make sure I didn’t miss a step in the 787. I also get that the FSX version has been out for a year and some of those bugs should have been addressed but again, bugs are system / user specific most of the time.

Now I do agree, pricing has gotten out of control. 

Edited by Wise87
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Dan

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If you really are desperate to get a 787 in your sim and willing to stomach the bugs at this price, fine. It’s not what I would do, but I can at least understand it. Knock yourself out. It’s your money.

But making excuses for the state of this and other aircraft released in the last couple of years I really can’t understand. It seems I’m in a small minority here at Avsim that doesn’t think a trend of higher prices and buggier releases is good for our hobby, though.

The Aerosoft CRJ, from what I can tell, is still more or less completely broken, and will probably never be truly “fixed.” But more than a few posters at Avsim are still advising others to buy it! That says it all. Tooting is right. We will get exactly what we’re willing to pay for, and we’ll deserve it.

By the way, as soon as the basic bugs in the 787 are fixed I’ll buy it immediately. But you’ve got to fix the bugs first, guys. That’s where I draw the line.

James

 

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14 minutes ago, AnkH said:

He compares two companies that SELL a product for their benefit called economic income. We (the simming community) should finally stop to stick in the ages where enthusiasts developed an addon for free for other enthusiast and excuses such as "no time", "private life", "to big workload", "only minor bugs" and all this stuff perfectly OK for freeware... It is a business nowadays, and no matter how big it is, how many millions of dollars you earn, the same basic rules should apply. It sounds harsh, but if a developer can not cope with todays business harshness, he should consider doing again freeware (maybe with a donation system) or change field. But he should NOT trying to sell something that is as bugged as 9 months before (no matter how severe those bugs are...) and then be surprised about the reactions you get nowadays when you SELL something to more and more demanding customers... But, honestly, QW is not the only flightsim addon developer obviously still trying to profit from the naive attitude some simmers still have (see post above).

I fully agree, especially since some developers manage to do so !

Regards,


Richard Portier

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It's frightening the level some people in our community seem happy to defend, and minimise the demands made of, flight sim developers.

They are charging not insignificant amounts of your cold hard cash, not some altruistic freebie to the community as with the Avsim library. Yes, the standard of product expected is much higher, but then so are the amounts charged. I want what I pay for to work. 

At the moment, the market has equalised at add-ons that are expensive and buggy. That doesn't bode well for the future of our hobby.
Can you imagine if Call of Duty developer Activision released a half-working product to market? Heck, look at what happened with EA and their publishing of Star Wars Battlefront II - there was nearly a riot and that was with a working product!


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1 hour ago, vhufo said:

You walk into a car yard, brand new car sitting there.

 

Asking full price for it.

 

Looks pretty, but the salesman says, " Yes its brand new, but the Cruise Control isn't working, there's a bug in it. I tell you what, buy it at full price, test it out for us and report back".

 

How many of you would buy that car?

 

When has this become acceptable in our society?

Can you really use buying a new car as an example for bugs? A car doesn't care what OS I'm running or the hardware I have installed, add-ons I'm using or weather I have an unstable overclock which is verified by programs that put a high demand on my system compared to others. A car doesn't care if my system is a mess because I installed files everywhere instead of the recommended directory. 

I've seen people buy cars and than use the wrong grade of gas and wonder why there engine is knocking or they installed after market or non-OEM parts and than go back to the dealer and complain about a problem. 

There is only a single model of that car but there are millions of different user setups. To compare car to software developement is not an accurate comparison.  

Using the Microsoft operating system would have been a better comparison. We’ve been dealing with bugs with that OS for decades.

Edited by Wise87
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Dan

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1 hour ago, regis9 said:

Last night I had time to set up a flight to run overnight so I sent my 787 on a 16+ hour jaunt CYUL-ZSPD.  It’s actually just past the halfway point now so I’ll finish my flight when I get home from work.

My initial impressions from C&D to cruise level are that it looks great, sounds great, works as I would expect. The 787 itself is a very cool plane and I’m going to enjoy learning its nuances. It got enough Boeing familiarity so I’m not totally lost, but enough difference from earlier boeings to make it interesting.

One minor annoyance is that if you install both the old and new Air Canada 788 liveries they have the same name so P3D doesn’t allow that.  It’s an easy fix though.

All in all a good first impression and we’ll see where we go from here.

How did you fix the Air Canada dupicate livery issue? I had the same problem. BTW, I love the plane, looks great, sounds great, easy to fly.

Cheers, Pete


Pete Solov - Lake in the Hills 3CK

and Schaumburg Regional 06C
Proud AOPA Member - PPL 2001
Real World Piper Cherokee Pilot

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Everybody is a beta tester when a new aviation product, both real world & sim, comes out. Look at the RW 787 and battery problems. When I flew real world rotary wing starting in the 1970s the Jetranger was nicknamed the Deathranger (rotor head issues), the Astar when it came out was nicknamed the falling star (engine issues) and the Hillar turbine was nicknamed Hillar the killer. Always thought it was a good idea to let someone else fly something new for the first year or two..... Simming for me is the same  as I probably won't buy the 787 for the first few weeks to follow first hand reviews. With the QW 787 I am not expecting much in the way of problems.

Dave

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3 hours ago, vhufo said:

[....]

When has this become acceptable in our society?

Isn't that the question for nearly everything going on in society these days, though...?

With regards to the price, in my mind flightsim has generally become some 20-30$ more expensive with the release of P3D. Developers have generally explained this by pointing out P3D's license. Whether this is right or wrong is not something I particularly care about, but I think it's fair to say that it's not just QW... Though I do understand the sentiment of not wanting to shell out 70$ for something that appears to have a few bugs.

Edited by Benjamin J

Benjamin van Soldt

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Sounds like it's better to wait for some service updates before buying, and I'm fine with that.


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To get this topic back on track, I and I'm sure many others would appreciate if somebody that has access to the Quality Wings forums could let us know what the status is in regards to a hotfix or a update to the current RTM. I do want to buy this but I'm going to wait until they get a few of the bugs squashed before doing so. Thank you in advance. 


Eric 

 

 

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