FSL back at it again

[nazethc 73]

14 minutes ago, SpiritFlyer said:

I doubt AVSIM will be knocking its knees and biting it' fingernails because of a legal threat by a developer colouring outside the lines, at least I hope so. There are people here with integrity.. 

I also hope Avsim lets this thread stay up, as this is the second time FSLabs has been caught using "shady" anti-piracy methods.

[Poppet 703]

Hello

The Topic will stay open as long as the conversation stays general and clear of DRM discussions  

 

[overspeed3 410]

I purchased both the recent FSL Concorde and the A320 for FSX (wonderful products).  But unless and until this sticky situation is resolved, FSL will not be getting any more of my cash...     

[YukonPete 580]

I will buy future FSL products! 

[Sid Starz 0]

Just read this topic after downloading the latest version and installing it earlier. This was my first install of the A320X since the last fiasco became public.

Some pics of what was changed and added during the installation and file locations.

https://ibb.co/nQTYay

https://ibb.co/dtxgTJ

 

Edited June 2, 2018 by Sid Starz
text error

[DavidP 1,406]

37 minutes ago, YukonPete said:

I will buy future FSL products! 

Me too.

[vgbaron 3,473]

Much ado about nothing IMHO. As I read some of this, the main complaint from some is that files are put into Windows System folder. Hate to be the bearer of bad news to those but MANY programs ( not only in FlightSIm) put files in system folders. Just as many use the registry for storing information - which it was designed for.

Actually the registry was originally designed to eliminate the need for all those .INI files that were populating the Windows root folder in past days. Then some programmers decided to use .CFG files etc.

The problem is not in where these files are located, it really makes NO difference to your system but it may make a difference to the program - the key thing is whether they are cleaned up during an uninstall.

I fear that some are just making noise for the sake of making noise.

Vic

[John_Cillis 2,406]

42 minutes ago, vgbaron said:

Much ado about nothing IMHO. As I read some of this, the main complaint from some is that files are put into Windows System folder. Hate to be the bearer of bad news to those but MANY programs ( not only in FlightSIm) put files in system folders. Just as many use the registry for storing information - which it was designed for.

Actually the registry was originally designed to eliminate the need for all those .INI files that were populating the Windows root folder in past days. Then some programmers decided to use .CFG files etc.

The problem is not in where these files are located, it really makes NO difference to your system but it may make a difference to the program - the key thing is whether they are cleaned up during an uninstall.

I fear that some are just making noise for the sake of making noise.

Vic

The problem comes to making backups of software, in case there is a problem.  If the user does not have full knowledge of where the software is and there is a loss of data on the device, or a move to a new system because of a system failure, then it becomes a hassle that developers of entertainment titles should not put on users.  We are not talking about software meant to run department stores, or hotels, or hospitals. We are talking about user entertainment and the lengths some developers are going thru to make it nearly impossible to keep the license when the user has a setback, which does happen.  I have released amateur software on my own, but have worked for the big companies as well, including IBM, JDA, and the Hotel PMS companies that have a lot more to lose.  We did not put our end users thru such hoops, we always made it clear how they could back up what we licensed to them.   And yes, piracy is a danger even in those realms that I had worked in.  In case my bona fides are suspect, I am on LinkedIn, where my past employers have validated my work history, but I do not believe we need to go there.

John

[Pineapple_Wizard 42]

To be honest I'm impressed this thread has stayed open with the heavy handed censorship avsim usually sports as well as the threats of libel from the developer. That said, whether or not the files being in that location itself is harmful, even if their previous "debacle" technically didn't harm anyone, it is the principle of the thing that I dislike. Whether or not I or anyone was directly affected and the file was not harmful, the entire principle behind their actions shows a lack of respect and tact for everyone. Also a prime example of the Streisand effect, their actions in response to the discovery of this file being placed in the system folder I find is even worse than the act of putting the file there itself. Their attitude towards the situation certainly leaves one with a bad taste in the mouth.

[vgbaron 3,473]

4 minutes ago, Cactus521 said:

The problem comes to making backups of software, in case there is a problem.  If the user does not have full knowledge of where the software is and there is a loss of data on the device, or a move to a new system because of a system failure, then it becomes a hassle that developers of entertainment titles should not put on users.  We are not talking about software meant to run department stores, or hotels, or hospitals. We are talking about user entertainment and the lengths some developers are going thru to make it nearly impossible to keep the license when the user has a setback, which does happen.  I have released amateur software on my own, but have worked for the big companies as well, including IBM, JDA, and the Hotel PMS companies that have a lot more to lose.  We did not put our end users thru such hoops, we always made it clear how they could back up what we licensed to them.   And yes, piracy is a danger even in those realms that I had worked in.  In case my bona fides are suspect, I am on LinkedIn, where my past employers have validated my work history, but I do not believe we need to go there.

John

I understand your logic but IMHO backing up installed software is an exercise in futility. If it's a simple one folder install, fine but according to that logic any program  that uses the registry is also "bad". I'd simply back up the original installer, backing it up after install, without doing a system backup is fraught with danger except in the simplest of cases. As these newer software titles, scenery and aircraft are becoming more complex doing what you suggest becomes increasingly difficult.

If I were still producing software I'd recommend a backup of the original NOT after install. I also know of several very popular flightsim titles that will fail miserably if you tried to use that sort of backup.

Vic

 

[John_Cillis 2,406]

1 hour ago, vgbaron said:

I understand your logic but IMHO backing up installed software is an exercise in futility. If it's a simple one folder install, fine but according to that logic any program  that uses the registry is also "bad". I'd simply back up the original installer, backing it up after install, without doing a system backup is fraught with danger except in the simplest of cases. As these newer software titles, scenery and aircraft are becoming more complex doing what you suggest becomes increasingly difficult.

If I were still producing software I'd recommend a backup of the original NOT after install. I also know of several very popular flightsim titles that will fail miserably if you tried to use that sort of backup.

Vic

 

Yes, as a rule I try to backup the original installer, and I place the license key, if any, in a text file and I email it to myself as an attachment so if I am ever foolhardy enough to lose a system like I did last year when my apartment AC blew with my computer left on while I was away for a month, I will still have the software key.  Carenado and Alabeo, bless their hearts, save your license keys as long as you remember your login and password there.  But I lost the RealAir Duke Piston and Turbine forever and despite emailing the authors, who darn well know who I am and know that I purchased it, I got no reply and I was very polite.  Some developers care, and some do not give a darn.

John

[dgraham1284 92]

3 hours ago, Sid Starz said:

Just read this topic after downloading the latest version and installing it earlier. This was my first install of the A320X since the last fiasco became public.

Some pics of what was changed and added during the installation and file locations.

https://ibb.co/nQTYay

https://ibb.co/dtxgTJ

 

So thats why they have been opening with the sim and I couldn't trace it. Thanks. Removed

 

[SpiritFlyer 987]

Well, so much heat and so little light...

Have to say this thread pretty much sums up a lot of attitudes including heavy handedness, overstatements and bad feelings all around.

Serves everyone right for just making a bit of noise for the sake of just making a bit of noise indeed.

Might as well close the thread as insult everyone in it.

Edited June 3, 2018 by SpiritFlyer

[kingm56 1,023]

2 minutes ago, SpiritFlyer said:

Well, so much heat and so little light...

Have to say this thread pretty much sums up a lot of attitudes including heavy handedness, overstatements and bad feelings all around.

Serves everyone right for just making a bit of noise for the sake of just making a bit of noise indeed.

Might as well close the thread as insult everyone in it.

Huh?  Please point to one comment in this thread that's 'heavy handed, overstated or impolite? A few posters have made some cogent arguments, which were responded to with equally cogent and polite rebuttals (e.g. Cactus521 and vgbaron).  Ironically, your comment is the only one that meets the ill characteristics you prescribed. In fact, I enjoyed this thread because it didn't delude to 'heavy handedness and/or overstatements.'   

[Sethos 4,266]

I like how everyone's focused on the cmdhost.exe thing, which was quickly debunked and the entire thing could have ended there. No, the interesting thing and what's the cause of this current debacle is, how FSLabs handled it. Threatening with legal action against Reddit and now as we discover, FSElite as well; https://fselite.net/originals/our-response-to-recent-events/

That is just extremely poor form and shows how insecure they are.