FSL back at it again

[n4gix 4,947]

4 hours ago, Holdit said:

...criticising the replacement of those files...

Well, that really isn't what happens to begin with! CMDHOST.EXE has not been distributed since Win95.

What is CMDHOST.EXE anyway?

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cmdhost.exe, the command prompt host, is just a program that generates the GUI-less environment for a command line program to operate in (since the concept of stuff like "stdin" and "stdout" aren't applicable). It's not DOS at all, just a program that emulates what used to be called a DOS box by providing various services like clipboard to stdin/stdout, scroll back buffers, mapping text draw commands and cursor control commands, etc.

Since this file is not installed by Win7 or Win10, it has to be supplied by FSLabs so that it will be available for eSellerate's use. It is a Microsoft created program, and is perfectly safe to be used.

I can only surmise that for some reason FSLabs cannot use the current "DOS Box" replacement program "cmd.exe"....

Edited June 3, 2018 by n4gix
Added more information

[Holdit 551]

30 minutes ago, n4gix said:

Well, that really isn't what happens to begin with! CMDHOST.EXE has not been distributed since Win95.

True, I don't know why I said "replaced". I plead early-morning fuzziness.

[John_Cillis 2,406]

35 minutes ago, n4gix said:

Well, that really isn't what happens to begin with! CMDHOST.EXE has not been distributed since Win95.

What is CMDHOST.EXE anyway?

Since this file is not installed by Win7 or Win10, it has to be supplied by FSLabs so that it will be available for eSellerate's use. It is a Microsoft created program, and is perfectly safe to be used.

I can only surmise that for some reason FSLabs cannot use the current "DOS Box" replacement program "cmd.exe"....

In fact on some systems, depending on the mix of software installed, it is not uncommon to see several instances of cmdhost running and the unsavvy user might think: OMG, a virus.  If you really want to understand your system, get Hijackthis, mark the services, etc that are OK on your system, and use it to scan for new processes.  If one pops up, use Google and learn, do not willy nilly delete them else some programs you have just added will quit working, just like that.

There is also a lot of misinformation about Windows services that "should" be deleted meant to dupe people into sabotaging their own systems.  I call it passive Malware, the power of suggestion.  Rule of thumb, if it ain't broke, do not fix it.  If a service is safe to stop and stopping it improves performance of a sim environment, fine, but let it start again when windows starts.  With me I just leave my Windows 10 O/S alone and I have never had a system freeze or unwanted performance in any of the entertainment titles I enjoy (With Xplane11, P3DV4, No Limits 2, Chess Titans, and Hoyle Card Games making up 99 pct. of them).

John

[RollingRock 22]

1 hour ago, n4gix said:

Well, that really isn't what happens to begin with! CMDHOST.EXE has not been distributed since Win95.

What is CMDHOST.EXE anyway?

Since this file is not installed by Win7 or Win10, it has to be supplied by FSLabs so that it will be available for eSellerate's use. It is a Microsoft created program, and is perfectly safe to be used.

I can only surmise that for some reason FSLabs cannot use the current "DOS Box" replacement program "cmd.exe"....

Let's be clear though.   The file that FSLabs distributed that they are calling cmdhost.exe is not the cmdhost that microsoft distributes or created.  It has nothing to do with it.  It's just a c# program that they named cmdhost.exe.   There is zero reason they needed to call it cmdhost or place it in the windows directory tree.

 

[John_Cillis 2,406]

29 minutes ago, RollingRock said:

Let's be clear though.   The file that FSLabs distributed that they are calling cmdhost.exe is not the cmdhost that microsoft distributes or created.  It has nothing to do with it.  It's just a c# program that they named cmdhost.exe.   There is zero reason they needed to call it cmdhost or place it in the windows directory tree.

 

Developers reserve the right to name auxiliary exe's as they wish.  As a developer I loathed newbie developers who were gung ho on naming conventions for variables, dll's, etc.  I wanted them to write readable code, as QA my role was to look into their code if necessary to determine whether their business logic was sound or not, and also write bootstrap automation code to relieve them of some of their unit testing burden so when something did come to QA there was less chance of them having to do a rebuild, since in Agile our goal was to get code out to the end users as quickly as possible with a few sev 0 and sev 1 defects as possible.  There is no commandment in development that requires a third party developer to do as the user pleases, even if we are so called experts on development.  If it works, I do not care how it works.  If it breaks my system and only then, then I care.

John

[RollingRock 22]

Of course they reserve the right.   They can do what they want.

Likewise their customers and the public at large can certainly criticize their development practices.    Naming files after default windows programs and placing them needlessly in the windows system folder after you have already had a recent scandal is not smart is it?

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There is no commandment in development that requires a third party developer to do as the user pleases, even if we are so called experts on development.  If it works, I do not care how it works.  If it breaks my system and only then, then I care

 

Best practices exist for a reason.   That reason isn't just to prevent something from grossly failing.   It's also their to minimize risk and keep trust with the community at large.   That's fine if you don't care about it but that's not really an industry sentiment.

[John_Cillis 2,406]

15 minutes ago, RollingRock said:

Of course they reserve the right.   They can do what they want.

Likewise their customers and the public at large can certainly criticize their development practices.    Naming files after default windows programs and placing them needlessly in the windows system folder after you have already had a recent scandal is not smart is it?

Best practices exist for a reason.   That reason isn't just to prevent something from grossly failing.   It's also their to minimize risk and keep trust with the community at large.   That's fine if you don't care about it but that's not really an industry sentiment.

"Best Practices" taken to an extreme micromanages business, which is the failing of many businesses that have 100 Vice Presidents to one rank and file worker.  I have been schooled in Seven Habits, Six Sigma, Waterfall, Agile, etc and I have never seen a true implementation of any one system in any one business.  A developer friend of mine from India called it best: Stupid Management BS, and he called out our managers in a team meeting when they sat for hours debating implementation without allowing Agile to work as it should. 

All of these corporate "self help" programs try to brainwash the rank and file into some mindset that does not understand that it stifles the creativity of a developer, or QA support, or implementation and change management.  I have worked in businesses that burdened themselves with so many levels of micromanagement that their projects stalled, and were bought out by the leaner, meaner competitors that deserve a shot at success no matter how they do business. 

IMHO private businesses end up being more successful than their corporate counterparts that cow tow to shareholders that know nothing of operating a business or the line level work that their workers do.  Watch the movie "Wall Street", there is a lot of truth in it about Micromanagement, and the top level of the business that gets 97 percent of the profits while the workers struggle on a meager 3 percent.  I am glad I retired out of all the Stupid Management BS I put up with in my career in business.

John

[n4gix 4,947]

34 minutes ago, RollingRock said:

Let's be clear though.   The file that FSLabs distributed that they are calling cmdhost.exe is not the cmdhost that microsoft distributes or created.  It has nothing to do with it.  It's just a c# program that they named cmdhost.exe.   There is zero reason they needed to call it cmdhost or place it in the windows directory tree.

https://www.reddit.com/r/flightsim/comments/8nlrn6/another_fsl_scandal_debunked/

Thanks. I stand (actually sit) corrected! It is clear however from the extracted C# file(s) that they are totally benign and otherwise harmless.

The reason why they had to be placed in the two system folders should be obvious: where else could one place x86 and x64 files with the same names, and thus support both 32bit and 64bit sim versions?

As for the reason they used "cmdhost.exe" as the filename, for all I know it could be a requirement forced on them by the eSellerate software they use.

I remain convinced however that this is indeed a "tempest in a teapot," and were it not for their previous truly "monumentally poor decision" a few months ago, this topic would never have been raised. It is quite clear to me that there have been folks actively looking for anything that could further harm FSLab's reputation.

[RollingRock 22]

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"Best Practices" taken to an extreme micromanages business, which is the failing of many businesses that have 100 Vice Presidents to one rank and file worker. 

What is your point?   That best practices shouldn't even exist?   What we are talking about is not an extreme case of best practices.

Quote

 I have been schooled in Seven Habits, Six Sigma, Waterfall, Agile, etc and I have never seen a true implementation of any one system in any one business.  A developer friend of mine from India called it best: Stupid Management BS, and he called out our managers in a team meeting when they sat for hours debating implementation without allowing Agile to work as it should. 

Yes I develop with agile as well.   Best practices and standards still exist in an agile flow.   Agile does not mean "do whatever you want" or "don't worry about what the customer wants" as it seems is your sentiment here.

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All of these corporate "self help" programs try to brainwash the rank and file into some mindset that does not understand that it stifles the creativity of a developer, or QA support, or implementation and change management.  I have worked in businesses that burdened themselves with so many levels of micromanagement that their projects stalled, and were bought out by the leaner, meaner competitors that deserve a shot at success no matter how they do business. 

IMHO private businesses end up being more successful than their corporate counterparts that cow tow to shareholders that know nothing of operating a business or the line level work that their workers do.  Watch the movie "Wall Street", there is a lot of truth in it about Micromanagement, and the top level of the business that gets 97 percent of the profits while the workers struggle on a meager 3 percent.  I am glad I retired out of all the Stupid Management BS I put up with in my career in business.

And also being a developer I have seen so many business and groups fail when there is not some level of organization and "best practice/lesson learned" environment.  It works both ways.

Point is there is a very common best practice in development whereas you do not touch system directories unless you have to.   That is not an example of extreme micromanagement so I really do not understand the point of reply or your sentiment at all.

 

[RollingRock 22]

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The reason why they had to be placed in the two system folders should be obvious: where else could one place x86 and x64 files with the same names, and thus support both 32bit and 64bit sim versions?

 

That's not a hard problem to get around.   One default answer would be the two "Program Files" directories that windows ships with.   There's many other solutions as well.   I just simply used two folders when I've encountered this problem.

Quote

 

As for the reason they used "cmdhost.exe" as the filename, for all I know it could be a requirement forced on them by the eSellerate software they use.

I remain convinced however that this is indeed a "tempest in a teapot," and were it not for their previous truly "monumentally poor decision" a few months ago, this topic would never have been raised. It is quite clear to me that there have been folks actively looking for anything that could further harm FSLab's reputation.

 

I can definitely see that point of view.   Which is why I'm puzzled they went down this route to begin with to just invite more drama and bad PR.

[Guest]

What a great hobby we have. There's always something exciting going on! I wonder how may addon also put all kinds of files in various folders? In that regard I can't say I am utterly shocked or anything. But as some other already said I can't say I like how FSLabs reacts to all this: threatening with all kinds of legal actions and specially asking for data of certain users (which would be illegal where I live, certainly with the new European General Data Protection Regulation).

It's a bit messy on all sides. As it usually is.

[John_Cillis 2,406]

4 minutes ago, J van E said:

What a great hobby we have. There's always something exciting going on! I wonder how may addon also put all kinds of files in various folders? In that regard I can't say I am utterly shocked or anything. But as some other already said I can't say I like how FSLabs reacts to all this: threatening with all kinds of legal actions and specially asking for data of certain users (which would be illegal where I live, certainly with the new European General Data Protection Regulation).

It's a bit messy on all sides. As it usually is.

As a rule I prefer it when the add-on developers I like protect their products from piracy, otherwise they won't be in business for me to purchase their next add-on and there is nothing worse than to see some developer who has graced our community with quality add-ons go out of business.  The smaller a developer is, the stronger they have to be to protect themselves from piracy as long as they provide their users with steps to recover their products if something goes wrong.  That is why I always email my license keys to myself so I have them in case I ever need to reinstall, which thank goodness I only had to do when I purchased this rig about a year ago.  If I lose a license key I repurchase the product, if I have liked it.  Without third party developers our hobby would not have survived.  Lockheed Martin would not have had a reason to save MSFS, and Xplane would not have had a reason to enhance, greatly enhance with Xplane11, their product.  I feel bad for the newcomer sims because it is so hard to be a start up with no third party support, even if their products are good, it is an uphill battle.  One of the best sims I ever owned, prophetic in its Photoreal scenery, was Flight Unlimited Two, if one can remember that far back to the late 90's.  It leaped ahead MSFS at the time but had no third party support.  It even modeled wake turbulence, albeit a bit too strong.

John

[overspeed3 410]

Yes, I also had Flight Unlimited Two:  A very innovative sim, which had some amazing graphics considering how long ago it was first introduced.  Too bad it died on the vine...

[nazethc 73]

1 hour ago, n4gix said:

I remain convinced however that this is indeed a "tempest in a teapot," and were it not for their previous truly "monumentally poor decision" a few months ago, this topic would never have been raised.  It is quite clear to me that there have been folks actively looking for anything that could further harm FSLab's reputation.

As for the folks looking for anything.....yup we are....they we're caught once, and lo and behold guess what....they we're caught again, and.....

It happened with their shenanigans with Aerosoft, it happened with test.exe, it happened with cmdhost.exe, and way back when this certain developer was working on the MD-11 there was a piece of malware that destroyed paying customers FS installs.  The company cut ties immediately after that happened.  They even knew it was way over the line. Kudos to them!

And on top of that, they get caught out there, and their response, Legal Action.......LOL!

Coincidence?  

So yes, we are constantly looking.  And are NOT surprised by the results.  And we will keep looking....

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me four times.............

 

Edited June 3, 2018 by nazethc

[kingm56 1,031]

19 minutes ago, nazethc said:

As for the folks looking for anything.....yup we are....they we're caught once, and lo and behold guess what....they we're caught again, and.....

It happened with their shenanigans with Aerosoft, it happened with test.exe, it happened with cmdhost.exe, and way back when this certain developer was working on the MD-11 there was a piece of malware that destroyed paying customers FS installs.  The company cut ties immediately after that happened.  They even knew it was way over the line. Kudos to them!

And on top of that, they get caught out there, and their response, Legal Action.......LOL!

Coincidence?  

So yes, we are constantly looking.  And are NOT surprised by the results.  And we will keep looking....

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me four times.............

 

I completely forgot about them using Aerosoft files in their program.  To say they have a track record, and deserve the attention they're getting, is a massive understatement...