Landing Data

[downscc 1,327]

4 hours ago, scandinavian13 said:

Exactly. I've found a lot of the military guys I've flown with fly the AoA more than the speed. Is an AoA gauge pretty common equipage in that area? I know a lot of the fighters have an AoA gauge (or an over/under/on indicator, really) by the HUD somewhere, but is that something that they teach/practice pretty consistently across the board?

I can't answer to modern fighters, but flying a F-106 or F-4 the AoA was very important instrument.  It's about the only thing that kept you above stall on approach.

[BlueStar 323]

6 hours ago, scandinavian13 said:

is that something that they teach/practice pretty consistently across the board?

It starts with the T-37 and T-38.  Also on the KC-135.  My AF fighter buddies tell me it's on the A-10 and the F-16.  The Navy guys I know say it was on all their airplanes including the props.  The carrier guys tell me they could not imagine coming on the "boat" with out the AOA.  

[BlueStar 323]

10 hours ago, 19dcavscout said:

Here is my take on it. Flying by AOA is a good thing, however, in the situation of the 200LR, AOA would not matter.

I don't know about this, but I'm going to be eating burgers this weekend with one of my hockey buddies who flew the 200LR for several years.  I will ask.  He is a former military fighter guy and a big believer in the AOA.

  

[phil747fan 14]

i do not fly the LR but here is something to read about the AOA in a civilian aircraft:

 

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_12/attack_story.html

 

or the pdf

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_12/aoa.pdf

 

i am aware of AA and DL for the fitting of aoa on a 777 so it will be very interesting to read what the pilots using will say about it on a commercial plane.

 

btw the 200er is affected also by the vref and pressure altitude ... under JAA and FAA certifications for the GE90-94.

[phil747fan 14]

i may add even if not the right part of the forum. the 747-400 had the same issue and you needed to add +1 knot by 3000 feet for VREF30 and 25 and it was with at least operator. data were given starting at sea level pressure. 

[Driverab330 74]

8 hours ago, Bluestar said:

I don't know about this, but I'm going to be eating burgers this weekend with one of my hockey buddies who flew the 200LR for several years.  I will ask.  He is a former military fighter guy and a big believer in the AOA.

  

An A0A indicator provide very useful info. However the only time where I did an approach solely rely on AOA information is when using the BUSS (backup speed scale) on the A330. It is indeed a very useful feature in the event of unreliable airspeed indication.

 

[19dcavscout 39]

On 6/7/2018 at 9:14 PM, scandinavian13 said:

Exactly. I've found a lot of the military guys I've flown with fly the AoA more than the speed. Is an AoA gauge pretty common equipage in that area? I know a lot of the fighters have an AoA gauge (or an over/under/on indicator, really) by the HUD somewhere, but is that something that they teach/practice pretty consistently across the board?

I am in the military and we don't fly with it at all. To be fair, the Army focuses on rotary wing flight, and even though I fly fixed wing, it is a lot harder to get people to start thinking like that. It doesn't help that our aircraft, at least the few that I have flown, are not equipped with them. I would love to have one in my aircraft, I am sure it could help the frankenstein of the aircraft I am currently flying. 

[downscc 1,327]

3 hours ago, 19dcavscout said:

I am sure it could help the frankenstein of the aircraft I am currently flying.

LOL what are you flying Nick?  My guess is U-21A?  I've heard good and bad about the King Air 100s.

[19dcavscout 39]

11 hours ago, downscc said:

LOL what are you flying Nick?  My guess is U-21A?  I've heard good and bad about the King Air 100s.

RC-12X. King Air 200 body, Beech 1900 wings tail and landing gear, -67 engines, and a crap ton of antennas. It's definitely something else.

[BlueStar 323]

11 hours ago, downscc said:

My guess is U-21A?

I liked the U-21 and my family has a C-90 that I really enjoy flying when they need the extra help.  But it's possible I could be confused since I flew "Charlie" models in SE Asia. ROFL.

[BlueStar 323]

On ‎6‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 10:42 PM, Driverab330 said:

Thx for the info, I have never have the privilege to fly the 772LR in real life which I would love to.

Not to get into a prolonged discussion on this matter with you and Phill I talked to my B777 buddy about these issues this evening over burgers on the grill and soft drinks.  He normally doesn't fly the AOA because the magic will not let him except in certain situations.  They do train extensively using the AOA in various emergency scenarios including the LR/ER.  He does use the AOA for a reference.  

I asked about deck angle on landing and specifically about whether the nose needed to held off the group with back pressure similar to the B767 or pushed forward like the B757.  He said on landing the nose is normally about 65 feet off the ground and must be held off the ground and allow to settle gently as speed decreases. 

[downscc 1,327]

12 hours ago, 19dcavscout said:

RC-12X. King Air 200 body, Beech 1900 wings tail and landing gear, -67 engines, and a crap ton of antennas. It's definitely something else.

My goodness, that sounds interesting.  The Wikipedia article has a short mention of the RC12X, and that they entered service in 2011.... yeah, way after my time but the various King Air's have been part of the military forever it seems.  We had them in the 89th Special Airlift Wing (the unit that operates Air Force One) when I was on active duty 69-71.