Active Sky for X-Plane might be released Q4 2018

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

I have XP11, but have held off (until now) of purchasing xEnviro. I'm going to see what ASx brings, but the more that I read about ASx, the less I'm interested in it. Anyway, I was under the impression that true volumetric clouds aren't planned for xEnviro until the release of version 1.10. I just checked their website again, it still says that. There's nothing more recent about this on .org either.

Some of what is being discussed in this thread is probably hampered by semantics. A 2D cloud would be a billboard; a flat texture applied to a planar surface. This approach works fine for horizontally distant clouds and high altitude cirrus formations. A 2.5D cloud would stack billboards horizontally and possibly vertically. Microsoft and Lockheed Martin refer to these layered/stacked billboards as sprites. The sprite mode is also enhanced in Active Sky for P3d4 with both volumetric fog and and an in-cloud volumetric effect. The word volumetric in this context refers to effects that are made up of individual particles that can move either collectively or independently. For a full 3D mode, the clouds would have to consist of particles. It makes zero sense to use 3D clouds except for the those closest to the aircraft. For distant clouds, 2D and 2.5D clouds are more than enough to provide realism. This is basically the approach that LM used in P3d4 with 3D trees. The trees are only 3D objects close up and as one's viewpoint is further and further away, the trees are 2.5D billboard versions. And keep in mind that the  denser settings of 3D trees in P3d4 absolutely kill performance, so most users revert back to option for the 2.5D trees.

Edited December 7, 2018 by jabloomf1230
typo

[Pastaiolo 1,688]

7 hours ago, Paraffin said:

I'm not so sure about that. SkyMaxx Pro has claimed "Full 3D Clouds" for a while, and I haven't noticed any obvious 2D billboard-type effects.

Clouds in SkyMaxx cast believable shadows on the ground that might be trickery (i.e. calculating the ground shadow as if the cloud was 3D while showing a non-rotating billboard to the viewer). But the effect sure looks believable, however they're doing it. There are even rain effects that start and stop as you move under individual clouds, which presumes some degree of 3D modeling for the rain, at least. 

SkyMaxx can claim a lot of things, but what actually happens is the same. If you have seen the noise generated clouds in xEnviro, you will instantly see the difference well beyond my ability to explain it in English 🙂 Either way sprites, billboards (rotating or not) are still 2d clouds.

2 hours ago, jabloomf1230 said:

I have XP11, but have held off (until now) of purchasing xEnviro. I'm going to see what ASx brings, but the more that I read about ASx, the less I'm interested in it. Anyway, I was under the impression that true volumetric clouds aren't planned for xEnviro until the release of version 1.10. I just checked their website again, it still says that. There's nothing more recent about this on .org either.

Some of what is being discussed in this thread is probably hampered by semantics. A 2D cloud would be a billboard; a flat texture applied to a planar surface. This approach works fine for horizontally distant clouds and high altitude cirrus formations. A 2.5D cloud would stack billboards horizontally and possibly vertically. Microsoft and Lockheed Martin refer to these layered/stacked billboards as sprites. The sprite mode is also enhanced in Active Sky for P3d4 with both volumetric fog and and an in-cloud volumetric effect. The word volumetric in this context refers to effects that are made up of individual particles that can move either collectively or independently. For a full 3D mode, the clouds would have to consist of particles. It makes zero sense to use 3D clouds except for the those closest to the aircraft. For distant clouds, 2D and 2.5D clouds are more than enough to provide realism. This is basically the approach that LM used in P3d4 with 3D trees. The trees are only 3D objects close up and as one's viewpoint is further and further away, the trees are 2.5D billboard versions. And keep in mind that the  denser settings of 3D trees in P3d4 absolutely kill performance, so most users revert back to option for the 2.5D trees.

It is indeed xEnviro 1.10, on their facebook page they share a lot of screenshots and videos from testings. I'll just put in here a recent video (there are still visual artifacts in it, more recently they showed also more clouds which develops vertically as well)
 

 

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

Thanks Francesco. It's hard to tell from the video whether the clouds are made up either of particles or sprites, but I'll take xEnviro's word for it that they true volumetric clouds, until someone shows otherwise. One would only be able to tell from watching a video if the aircraft flew down through the clouds and even then, sprite-based clouds combined with limited particle effects (like in Active Sky for P3d4) can be somewhat convincing.

 I have SkyMaxx and those clouds may appear "volumetric" but they are layered billboards of some sort.

[Paraffin 2,197]

 

2 hours ago, france89 said:

SkyMaxx can claim a lot of things, but what actually happens is the same. If you have seen the noise generated clouds in xEnviro, you will instantly see the difference well beyond my ability to explain it in English 🙂 Either way sprites, billboards (rotating or not) are still 2d clouds.

Do you have SkyMaxx Pro and have tested this? Just curious.

 

2 hours ago, jabloomf1230 said:

 I have SkyMaxx and those clouds may appear "volumetric" but they are layered billboards of some sort.

Well, then they're guilty of false advertising, because it's a listed feature on their sales page. 🙂

Semantics aside, I'm curious how SkyMaxx Pro can generate cloud shadows from individual cumulus puffs on the ground, if the clouds aren't 3D. Honest question, I don't have an agenda here.

Edited December 8, 2018 by Paraffin

[Longranger 148]

21 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

I'm curious how SkyMaxx Pro can generate cloud shadows from individual cumulus puffs on the ground, if the clouds aren't 3D. Honest question, I don't have an agenda here.

Cloud shadows are painted, as well as cloud reflections.

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

31 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

Well, then they're guilty of false advertising, because it's a listed feature on their sales page. 

It's only a white (cloud) lie since billboard sprite clouds are not planar and hence have volume. They just aren't particle-based.

[Paraffin 2,197]

55 minutes ago, Longranger said:

Cloud shadows are painted, as well as cloud reflections.

Okay, but to paint a cloud shadow, doesn't the plugin need a 3D model of the cloud? At least internally. You can't paint a cloud shadow on the ground with an upright 2D billboard facing the pilot.

[Pastaiolo 1,688]

I guess they can still detect, from a top down view, where the cloud is, where the sun is and project the shadow on the ground.

I am not saying they haven't done good things (another one i liked is how landing lights illuminated the clouds), but i think the difference between 2d textures is quite noticeable compared to noise generated clouds. Examples of this last category can be found in Outerra too, xEnviro, Assassin's Creed Odyssey, Il2 Sturmovik series to name few examples.

[Longranger 148]

7 hours ago, Paraffin said:

Okay, but to paint a cloud shadow, doesn't the plugin need a 3D model of the cloud? At least internally. You can't paint a cloud shadow on the ground with an upright 2D billboard facing the pilot.

No big problem. You know the position of the sun and of the cloud and you know more or less how the cloud looks like that you wanted to draw. Simply use a top down projection and place it at the correct position on the ground. A rough estimate is sufficient. You have no idea how many errors our optical system has to cope with on the fly. If it fits into its general internal image it will be considered correct and differences will be ignored.

They have to do this anyway since for X-Plane in XEnviro and SkyMaxx Pro there are no clouds in the sky! So it can't draw cloud shadows or reflections. The weather programs have to fill the buffers by themselves.

That is also a big problem. Since for X-Plane there are no clouds it also can't try to correct some values that are hidden. It will be quite a change with a new interface. So I wouldn't look so much at todays promises. What algorithms do they have ready and how long will it take for them to modify their systems to a given situation?

We mustn't forget, the new shaders were completly rewritten so it is hard to guess how the new Weather API will look like. I am quite certain that some parts that were in the core of 11.26 will only be slightly attached in 11.30, One of the big reasons for the new shaders is the use of new tools, but what have they prepared and will the new code work as expected? 

 

Edited December 8, 2018 by Longranger

[Longranger 148]

But if I might change back to the topic.

If nothing unexpected happens Active Sky will be available for X-Plane on Monday/Tuesday.

And you will probably be interested what Active Sky has to offer under X-Plane.

In my opinion the very good control of the winds and the very good performance are the most important features.

To give you an impression I went through my video archive of the beta phase. Please remember all scenes were work in progress and the scenes were recorded in different beta versions.

The first 20 seconds show the vFlyteAir Ikarus and how the plane reacts to the winds.

Then a start from OrbX Southhampton with a Carenado Citation. Quite heavy winds and turbulences in the clouds, followed with 30 seconds of the MilViz Cessna 310 above some clouds.

At  5:33  start with a Default 737 from Vancouver . 9:36 Default C172 and new Cloud Textures.

11:45 Juneau to Sitka with Default B58 and finally Juneau Sitka Default C172 with an earlier Version of the High Quality Clouds.

The final Version has a high performance and a high quality cloud textures.

 

[Paraffin 2,197]

Good to hear that it's been in beta for a while. I will buy it next week (assuming that's the release), just to support every effort to improve the weather in this sim.

It may or may not be what I end up using full-time in the coming year, but as I've said before, I think any true XP fanatic has to buy all these weather plugins to compare. And then pick the one that fits your flying style, because some of these work better for low-level GA than high-level airline ops, and vice-versa.

They're not THAT expensive as add-ons, and I'd rather have good weather than tons of payware scenery files.

[jt8d9a 1,881]

Will it be possible to run ASXP networked? I did read the manual, but i didn´t find something.

[HUSSAR 271]

Yes, it runs extremely well networked, and very simple setup too.

 

[Glenn_C 135]

I will buy as well if only to give my support to HiFi so that they have some impetus at least to continue developing. It's a software developer that I trust will bring many updates and improvements in the future.

[jt8d9a 1,881]

1 hour ago, HUSSAR said:

Yes, it runs extremely well networked, and very simple setup too.

Cool, many thanks!