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Guest cleetus vandamm

Carenado 206 descent/landing

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I have a 'problem' with the Carenado 206 which I bought over a year ago. When descending, the pitch down is just way too exaggerated..for example--at about 500fpm the angle of the plane looks like about 45+ degrees nose down in spot view. The view out the windshield in 2d or VC for instance, is the same, what seems to me to be very exaggerated. Makes it basically impossible to land. I've tried every possible adjustment to speed, flaps, etc... nothing works, so far.I asked about this several months ago and at that time the best advice I received was to adjust the cockpit view. That certainly makes it possible to 'see' the runway, but there's gotta be something wrong here. I have about 25 aircraft, give or take payware, freeware,... singles, twins, turbos, vintage airliners, RJ,... The only other aircraft I have where this is a little bit of an issue is Mikko's Maule.I'm about ready to give up on this otherwise great plane...I would post a screnshot but haven't figured out how to do that yet...Since I have never seen anyone else mention this situation...?? I wonder if it my install? I tried once re-installing... same thing..Other than that I really like flying the 206... but as someone said--- "You don't have to take off, but you DO have to land." :-) Thank you for any suggestions....

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Guest RiddlePilot

Lucky you. I fly a 206 in real life. I can attest to the steep pitch angle on final with full flaps. Its something like 8-10 degrees. I don't know about 45 degrees (you sure you're not exaggurating?). My technique is to come in on final with Flaps 20 and 80-85 MPH or 70-75 KTS (I fly a 1972 model with the ASI still in MPH). On about a half to quarter mile final, throw in the last 10 degrees and come across the numbers at 75 MPH or 65 KTS and TRIM TRIM TRIM. I throw about 2 or 3 turns of nose up trim in as I begin the roundout. Remember the 206 is alot heavier than your other single engine Cessnas. Its going to take some power to obtain a reasonable descent rate and airspeed. Just remember to not get too anxious in throwing in the last notch of flaps. This airplane was made to fly out of 1000 foot dirt/gravel strips in the bush, and it does a fine job of that.

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Hey Travis,Ah HA!!It worked.What in the world was I doing before? Weird...(I do trim--all the time)This time, following your speeds/flap settings, it was pretty smooth. 500-600 fpm looked about right..to me anyway.. does take practice, of course, but I could see it was working...However, I got a little high on short final, the pitch up from adding full flaps caught me---had to cheat a little. At that point, going back down to 500-600 fpm descent looked too steep again... maybe not 45 degres, maybe 30-35. :>)very strange.. the VSI was reading the same as a few miles back during the smooth approach... but the nose was way down... still much better...So--- I can see where I need to work at it.. Many thanks..You saved the 206. :>)

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Guest RiddlePilot

Thats my only gripe with the Carenado 206. In the real bird, the pitch changes with the final 10 degrees are nowhere near what the FS bird simulates. Its really nothing but drag, no lift, hence the reason you get that steep angle on approach.

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Travis, Ah ha,,, So it wasn't totally my terrible flying technique.. :>)Glad to hear it wasn't all me.Wonder if there is a way to adjust it in the aircraft.cfg file? Although I've never messed with them.Thanks for clearing it up.best,

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Travis,You and I use about the same approach numbers in the 206. Mine is a 1967 model and has 40 degrees of flaps available, but unless I'm clearing a tree line or similar obstacle into a short field, I use 30 degrees. One is best advised to use 40 only when the field is made and you intend to land. It will go around with 40 hung out there but it's not pretty and if you're a little bit heavy you'd better be on your best behavior.The approach angle with 40 is almost alarming, and you are correct with respect to the need for power on final. With 40 degrees you need almost cruise power and RPM to maintain a comfortable rate of descent. Pull the power and you'd better dump the nose and have a flat spot beneath you.That said, it is a magnificient short/rough field aircraft. I had to post a couple of pages from the POH here a while back in defense of the ol' bird. In short:- 84 gallons of fuel, and 1,200 pounds of payload- 20 knot headwind, 20 degrees of flaps, 700 pounds of fuel/payload, at STP and you are airborne in 155 feet (the POH says so). Can't vouch for that number but I see 500 ft. routinely.Regards,Leon

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Guest RiddlePilot

Yeah, full flaps and power off is alarming. Maybe I'll shoot a video next time I'm up. I was practicing engine failures in the pattern the other day, and with the glide speed of 85 MPH pegged and flaps 30, I couldn't see the horizon out of the windscreen. And thankfully I had my seatbelt tight, because I was surely sliding forward against it.Agreed on the payload and takeoff distance. We've got a 1711 lb. useful load, so with the full 80 gallons, we can carry 1220 lb of whatever you can throw through the huge cargo doors. And the takeoff run never ceases to amaze me.Question for you. We've got the oversized tires installed and the beefy STC'd nose fork. If you have the conventional set-up, do you find it suprisingly hard to turn the nosewheel?

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I do have the conventional set-up and the steering is certainly more difficult than even a 182, but you kind of expect it just due to the size of the thing. I make a sharp 90 in front of the hangar door coming back in at slow speed to align it, but I also use brake with the turn. My guess is it's easier to work than your oversized set-up, but even with the conventional rig differential braking goes a long way to ease the workload. Everything about the 206 just takes a little manhandling.Leon

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Guest RiddlePilot

I wasn't exactly comparing it to a 182, especially not an RG. You an turn those things just by thinking about it. I suppose it'll just take getting used to and a little "manhandling".Bill, I'll have a whack of the .cfg file when I get a free chance this week. I'm relatively new to the 206, having only flown it about 10 hours, so I'll make some notes the next time I go up. I'll come right home and hammer out some changes, especially in the flaps section.

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Really interesting reading both your comments about the real aircraft. Tells me a lot about the Carenado.. And Travis, your experience with 85 mph, 30 degrees and no power is just about the sight picture I had been having on approach. THE GROUND! I'm surprised they missed the 30 degree flap thing...I'll keep 'approaching'.. Thanks...

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Guest cleetus vandamm

I fly the Carenado 206 quite a bit and have a question for the real world pilots. I try my best to simulate real world engine manangement and have learned a lot in a short time. One situation that seems to come up often is, because of weather or terrain or usualy both I sometimes want to decend quickly. what I want to understand better is the Bottom end of the manifold pressure green arc. how long is it acceptable to go to flight idle( below the bottom of the green MAP. arc) to get a higher decent rate?I am sure the usual answer would be plan ahead for a longer decent but sometimes its doesn't seem possible with high terrain/wx.Of course there is no penalty in FS but I want to feel I am doing things right. For example flying over the Alaskan range I might have a hole in the weather to drop into a field surrounded by mountains. That may leave me with 5000 feet to drop in a short space of time.

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Just plan your descent for 500-700 fpm, try to keep the CHTs within the green band and if you have to drop in a hole somewhere, use a slow spiral descent on top.

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Guest cleetus vandamm

OK thanks. I had heard of the thermal shock thing. The other thing I had heard of, and im not sure if it aplies to the 206, is that if you dropped below the green arc on the manifold pressure then you may be in a situation where the passing air is causing the propeller to drive the engine rather than the engine driving the prop. ever heard of this or is it not a concern?

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Hi Guys, very nice to have a couple of real 206 pilots here! This is my favorite GA aircraft. There is only one thing I have a question about, the ammeter. Can one of you guys confirm it works correctly in Carenado's version? It doesn't seem quite right. Here's what I see:Start cold and dark. battery on: ammeter shows large dischage -okturn on avionics switch: ammeter shows charge. Is this correct? How can it show charge before the engine/alternator are brought online? (I know that the avionics switch should not be turned on until after engine start, but still...)turn off avionics switch, turn on pitot heat, nav lights, beacon: once beacon is on ammeter goes from discharge to charge. Is this right (same as above)?It's really the only niggle I have with the package. I know a bit about gauge programming and it seems this would be an easy fix, but unfortunately the gauge is in C so I cannot edit it. I've emailed Carenado and they initially said they would look into it, but have not responded to follow-up emails.Oh, sorry, one other thing. In Carenado's checklists they say, under takeoff, "MIXTURE -lean for field elevation per fuel flow placard". Unfortunately I cannot find the fuel flow placard published in any of the documentation or on the aircraft itself. Would one of you be so kind as to post a pic of the real placard? It would be very helpful as I usually fly out of high elevations in the Rockies.thanks in advance!Ryan

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Guest jboweruk

Could someone explain thermal shock to me please, I've heard of it, but don't know anything about it other than it's not good. Why does it happen in say a plane and not a car? Surely if the engines banging away in there then it's still pretty darned hot?

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