CPDLC explained

[Avantime 81]

If you find reading documents a bit dry, here's a little video of what it can do:

 

[scandinavian13 5,192]

Gents,

I think there's some crosstalk by a few of you about printing ACARS messages versus dispatch paperwork...I know a couple in the discussion are in 121 ops, too, so...

ACARS messages on 8.5x11? Last I checked, I haven't come across a plane with that kind of printer in it, and I've never seen ops print something out like that. The only real time you see ops do anything related to that is when funny messages from crews get a quick snap in insta or snapchat (not naming names, and of course operational messages are never shared...ever...ever, ever).

Dispatch paperwork? Yeah, sure.

2 hours ago, xTiMm_ said:

Because from what I have read so far, your CPDLC isn't prepared to be supported by VATSIM yet, right?
Hoppie is fully integrated already via a plugin in the controller tool.

Which controller tool? Euroscope? As far as I know, I'm not aware of any tool that has had wide acceptance anywhere. I never used the Hoppie option because it didn't integrate directly into the plane. As someone who used to do a ton of controlling on VATSIM, a lot of the other guys agreed with me that a lot of the issue is that none of the programs integrated directly into the plane's VC interfaces.

...and we literally announced this tool the other weekend. It's not like devs have even had a chance to consider supporting it. Part of the reason I set it up the way I set it up, though, was to make it easier for devs to integrate it: VA-side for ACARS, IVAO/VATSIM/PE for CPDLC - wherever.

 

[xTiMm_ 50]

This is what I have found for EuroScope which adds a plugin to be used with Hoppie's CPDLC solution: https://github.com/pierr3/vSMR
This is what they mainly use in Germany/Europe online on VATSIM (if I am correct!)

[scandinavian13 5,192]

14 minutes ago, xTiMm_ said:

This is what I have found for EuroScope which adds a plugin to be used with Hoppie's CPDLC solution: https://github.com/pierr3/vSMR
This is what they mainly use in Germany/Europe online on VATSIM (if I am correct!)

Yeah, I've never been enamored with either. ES has a bunch of cool functionality, but working with it was a bit of a pain in many regards. I definitely remember it being powerful, though...

Either way, our system would be a direct replacement, integrated into the decks of our, and - as has been announced by at least one other group - other developer aircraft as a VC-native function. No pop ups, no windowed programs running (for these functions anyway), and no real breaks in immersion.

Of course, the networks will have to pick it up somehow - either by an existing controller tool dev integrating it, or someone else - but so far, nothing has really had enough pilot buy in to make it worthwhile on a grander scale, and I think a lot of that has to do with that immersion factor.

[xTiMm_ 50]

True. A bit as a run against a wall. If no one is providing it, no one is using it. If no one is using it, why would they provide the "service". Its great that you are going to change that, tbh in a big wave as many of us are mainly flying with your products. This will change that game I hope a bit quicker.

Thanks for the explanation anyway!

[Copper. 78]

2 hours ago, scandinavian13 said:

Gents,

I think there's some crosstalk by a few of you about printing ACARS messages versus dispatch paperwork...I know a couple in the discussion are in 121 ops, too, so...

ACARS messages on 8.5x11? Last I checked, I haven't come across a plane with that kind of printer in it, and I've never seen ops print something out like that. The only real time you see ops do anything related to that is when funny messages from crews get a quick snap in insta or snapchat (not naming names, and of course operational messages are never shared...ever...ever, ever).

Dispatch paperwork? Yeah, sure.

 

I’m a little confused. You’re surely aware that the boeing’s come with the a4 printer as standard? The width of the paper is 8.5 - granted, it doesn’t cut to length but it does print to the a4 size (crews can fold or tear the paper). The video link avantime supplied in this thread illustrates some of the point.

The a4 printer still prints most reports in a condensed form (hangover from the old printers like the one fitted to the qots2). Other reports can come out in expanded full 8.5/11 (a4) page layout.

[ahsmatt7 1,199]

7 hours ago, icaruss said:

Not sure how familiar you are with 121 Ops, but some airlines use 8.5 x 11 and thousands of these are printed daily.  So you might chuckle quite a bit.

About 5ish years in 121. Totally forgot a lot fo 737s use those huge printers. I stand corrected.

[Copper. 78]

7 minutes ago, ahsmatt7 said:

About 5ish years in 121. Totally forgot a lot fo 737s use those huge printers. I stand corrected.

To prevent confusion - 737ng*, 737max, 777*, 787, 744*, 748 and heavy airbus’ have the a4 printers as standard.

*not all have the a4 printer

[scandinavian13 5,192]

7 minutes ago, Copper. said:

I’m a little confused. You’re surely aware that the boeing’s come with the a4 printer as standard? The width of the paper is 8.5 - granted, it doesn’t cut to length but it does print to the a4 size (crews can fold or tear the paper). The video link avantime supplied in this thread illustrates some of the point.

The a4 printer still prints most reports in a condensed form (hangover from the old printers like the one fitted to the qots2). Other reports can come out in expanded full 8.5/11 (a4) page layout.

Right, but that's the point - much like my receipt printer point from earlier. You might waste some real estate laterally, but if we're firing off ACARS messages at a standard printer, it's not going to nearly just add lines and keep on ticking until you tear the roll. It's going to fire off a bunch of individual sheets of paper.

You'll note that I specifically referenced the 8.5x11 paper size...so did Matt. Rafael seemed to be referring to dispatch paperwork (again, referencing x11), as I'm not aware of any aircraft printer that fires off a paper size that is pre-cut along the vertical axis. I'm sure you can see my confusion.

[Copper. 78]

7 minutes ago, scandinavian13 said:

Right, but that's the point - much like my receipt printer point from earlier. You might waste some real estate laterally, but if we're firing off ACARS messages at a standard printer, it's not going to nearly just add lines and keep on ticking until you tear the roll. It's going to fire off a bunch of individual sheets of paper.

You'll note that I specifically referenced the 8.5x11 paper size...so did Matt. Rafael seemed to be referring to dispatch paperwork (again, referencing x11), as I'm not aware of any aircraft printer that fires off a paper size that is pre-cut along the vertical axis. I'm sure you can see my confusion.

The confusion lay with me. Apologies to you Matt and Rafael, I thought we were talking airplane printers, not home printers. Topic drift alert. But yes, now I understand and I see how the home user could end up with considerable paper wastage, but if that’s what they want...! Haha.

[dva238 9]

Printing should be an option.  Some people don't have extra Ipads around or don't have the computing resources to have their computer handle everything.  I use a Kindle for flight plans and a iPad for charts.

Hoppie's system would be more useful if the interface was able to use the PMDG CDUs instead of a separate CDU on another computer. 

[ahsmatt7 1,199]

4 hours ago, Copper. said:

To prevent confusion - 737ng*, 737max, 777*, 787, 744*, 748 and heavy airbus’ have the a4 printers as standard.

*not all have the a4 printer

Your right. I used to jumpseat on a lot of Airbus and maddogs. Rarely on a 73. But notw that I'm thinking about it, with the 73s, the width was 8.5 but the length was never anything close to 11. It just depended on the length of the messages I suppose.

At the end of the day...who cares, I'm glad I dont have to commute anymore lol.

Edited June 18, 2018 by ahsmatt7

[jon b 2,047]

Some messages such as the PDC ( pre departure clearance) can only be printed off and not be  seen on the CDU, subject to the usual software version /company specific caveat when making these statements.

Also our company SOP is to print off any climb or routing clearance received via CPDLC and compare the flight number and registration are correct, both pilots agree on the message content and then a reply is sent and the clearance executed 

The reason to print the clearance is to confirm what CPDLC message you are actually replying to , in theory the print function should the active message. There is a situation, and I have seen this where the current message displayed in the CDU differs from the one printed , and thus the one you would be responding to . Messages can get backed up and out of sync, especially when using both the left and right CDUs to respond to CPDLC. There’s a current Boeing bulletin for the 747-400 making crews aware of this possible left -right CDU sync issue.

There is also then a hard copy for the records.

CPDLC on the whole is a great feature, and is much better integrated in the latest generation of jets such as the 787, 747-8 A350 etc. With the 747-400 to be honest it’s CDUs aren’t really fast enough for what’s required.Its a bit like trying to run the internet on a Commodore 64 You can sometimes see their screens blank out for a fraction of a second as a CPDLC Message arrives under the strain. Quite often receiving and sending CPDLC messages in quick succession can cause a backlog of data for the CDU to handle and they have a tendency to just give up and drop out requiring a  resync.

cheers

Jon Bunting

[scandinavian13 5,192]

17 minutes ago, jon b said:

subject to the usual software version /company specific caveat when making these statements.

Yeah, I was about to say...

18 minutes ago, jon b said:

Also our company SOP is to print off any climb or routing clearance received via CPDLC and compare the flight number and registration are correct, both pilots agree on the message content and then a reply is sent and the clearance executed 

Right, but again, your printer is capable of printing only the lines that need to be printed...the type sitting in 99.9999% of homes cannot.

Also: again, to be clear, I have - since the beginning of my printing criticism - referred to home printers, utilizing sheet-based (not roll-based) paper. I'm not saying printing is stupid, and nobody does it. I'm saying that - given the differences between what is in planes (roll-based, or screen-based) - the option is wasteful.

21 minutes ago, jon b said:

CPDLC on the whole is a great feature, and is much better integrated in the latest generation of jets such as the 787, 747-8 A350 etc. With the 747-400 to be honest it’s CDUs aren’t really fast enough for what’s required.Its a bit like trying to run the internet on a Commodore 64 You can sometimes see their screens blank out for a fraction of a second as a CPDLC Message arrives under the strain. Quite often receiving and sending CPDLC messages in quick succession can cause a backlog of data for the CDU to handle and they have a tendency to just give up and drop out requiring a  resync.

That's why all of this is being tested on the -8 😉

2 hours ago, dva238 said:

Printing should be an option.

You all do realize that you're going to print off...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A single message.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Per page.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Right?

[vegasjon 39]

I can see it now..."Announced at FlightSimExpo 2019- the new Saitek Flight Plan Receipt Printer..."