Ultimate Traffic Live - Simple Questions (Yep, another thread)

[pmb 5,137]

6 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

Hello Kiek,

my post was about UTL, not PSXSeecon

Best regards

But PSXSeecontraffic certainly is another alternative. I have been using it alternatively with UTLive for some time now, and according to my experience PSXSeecontraffic has the least effect on fps among the solutions I know. This may be caused by the fact that PSXSeecontraffic runs networked on my laptop freeing resources on the main machine (despite the Simconnect overhead), which can't be done with UTLive, as far as I know,

Certainly both solutions have their pros and cons, but PSXSeecontraffic is better on fps, notably on large hubs full of planes like KSFO.

I also bought Traffic Global to compare, but have been afraid to install it so far not to compromise the two other systems named above both running pretty well right now.

Kind regards, Michael

[kiek 1,215]

1 hour ago, Lorby_SI said:

Hello Kiek,

my post was about UTL, not PSXSeecon

Best regards

Hi Lorby,

I know, but you wrote "Once the aircraft has been injected, the sim has full control again, similar to any other AI product. "

That's not correct.

Regards,

Nico

[simbol 5,819]

19 minutes ago, kiek said:

Hi Lorby,

I know, but you wrote "Once the aircraft has been injected, the sim has full control again, similar to any other AI product. "

That's not correct.

Regards,

Nico

Well your statement is not 100% accurate either, the ESP AI engine will be in full control of any injected traffic unless something else takes ownership of the SimObject in which case the ATC ESP AI Engine will lose total awareness of such object since it will be outside of the ATC reality bubble and as a consequence the default  ATC software and any other 3rd party ATC software will be totally unaware of the traffic existence, movements, etc.

What Lorby is trying to explain is that after any AI traffic has been injected via SimConnect it is up to the ATC ESP Engine to fly and control the model, unless the injecting software does not wants to release it back to the ESP engine since it will be controlling it in full.

PSXSeecontraffic do not release the AI traffic back to the ATC ESP engine since it is slewing it around, however UTL (which is the subject of this topic) injects the traffic via SimObject, sets the required traffic way points and release it back to the ESP ATC Engine so it can control it, this has a big advantage as it allows the default ATC and many other 3rd party ATC products to be aware of the traffic around and interact with it accordingly.

All the best,
Simbol

 

Edited June 19, 2018 by simbol

[kiek 1,215]

1 hour ago, simbol said:

1) ... unless something else takes ownership of the SimObject in which case the ATC ESP AI Engine will lose total awareness of such object since it will be outside of the ATC reality bubble and as a consequence the default  ATC software and any other 3rd party ATC software will be totally unaware of the traffic existence, movements, etc.

2) ... unless the injecting software does not wants to release it back to the ESP engine since it will be controlling it in full.

3) PSXSeecontraffic do not release the AI traffic back to the ATC ESP engine since it is slewing it around, however UTL (which is the subject of this topic) injects the traffic via SimObject, sets the required traffic way points and release it back to the ESP ATC Engine so it can control it, this has a big advantage as it allows the default ATC and many other 3rd party ATC products to be aware of the traffic around and interact with it accordingly.

ad 1) That's indeed true for PSXseeconTraffic. However, there is no need for an ATC program. PSXseeconTraffic is about real live aircraft controlled by real live ATC. (In many countries) you can listen to real live ATC channels.

ad 2) Correct, that's the case with PSXseeconTraffic.

ad 3) as ad 1)  Each program has its pro-s and con's.

I did not want to hi-jack this thread, I only wanted to point to the fact that not all AI programs work the same. 

Regards,

Nico

Edited June 19, 2018 by kiek

[Skywolf 992]

Kiek, Lorby and Simbol,

Most excellent discussion on this thread.  I really do appreciate it.

 

Excellent feedback on flightsim traffic AI applications

 

[simbol 5,819]

2 minutes ago, Skywolf said:

Kiek, Lorby and Simbol,

Most excellent discussion on this thread.  I really do appreciate it.

 

Excellent feedback on flightsim traffic AI applications

 

The real question is what are you looking for ? everyone has it owns preferences and that is what really matters, you should use what makes your personal flying experience the best posible and enjoyable for you, some key points to keep in mind:

• If you want as close as posible to real world operations nothing beats VATSIM or POSCON which are FREE.
   
• If you want to have just some traffic around without 100% accurate traffic and flight plans, you wish to have something that is just plug and play and use the default or 3rd party ATC Interaction (for example PROATC-X) then UTL, MT6 or Just Flight Traffic Global (when is finished) are your options.
   
• If you want to have really up to date real world traffic but you don't like flying online, then real Flight Plans injected to your simulator is the way to go in which case PSXseeconTraffic is the one to use, however be aware you need to listen to real live ATC to be able to adapt to what is happening with the traffic as the AI traffic around you will not adapt to what you are doing, you will also not receive authorisation to land, take off, etc. as you will be just joining and seeing what is happening in the real world ATC, no all parts of the world offer Real ATC streaming which sometimes can be problematic.
  
  Lorby also has a freeware that injects traffic from real world into the sim, however he has stated several times that it works better to spot traffic around airports rather than to use it as an AI traffic tool, but some users use it and are happy with it.
  
  Another alternative is to generate the traffic yourself using real world time tables, this takes a lot of time and effort but a lot of people enjoy this, for this you need to acquire AI models with updated repaints, create the flight plans and compile them into traffic files (.BGL) the AIG forum is the place to go to get started, be aware this is very time consuming.. but also very addictive!, the reward is that you will get as close as posible to real world time tables and still have default ATC or 3rd party ATC interaction if this is what rocks your boat.

As you can see the ammount of possibilities is vast, it just depend of what you are looking for.

All the best,
Simbol

[newtie 533]

I want the one you're working on Simbol. 😂

Mark

[simbol 5,819]

Just now, newtie said:

I want the one you're working on Simbol. 😂

Mark

Hehe I am sure you do, mine will just complement the default ATC ESP Engine and / or integrate with 3rd party ATC Programs

S.

[newtie 533]

OK-just don't make me buy a beta release.

Ain't doin' THAT anymore. 😁

Mark

[simbol 5,819]

35 minutes ago, newtie said:

OK-just don't make me buy a beta release.

Ain't doin' THAT anymore. 😁

Mark

No worries, I don't work this way, in hence why I don't promise release dates and I run profesional beta testing for my software.

The downside is that you will need to wait, be patient until it is ready and there is nothing you can do to rush me , the plus side is you get a product that is ready and works .

Regards,
S.

[Lorby_SI 2,038]

5 hours ago, kiek said:

Hi Lorby,

I know, but you wrote "Once the aircraft has been injected, the sim has full control again, similar to any other AI product. "

That's not correct.

Regards,

Nico

Sorry about the misunderstanding then - but I just don't see PSXSeecon as an AI product. Focus and operations are very different, becasue it deals with real traffic - just MHO of course.

Best regards

[Lorby_SI 2,038]

As for discussions about how programs do what. Apart from BGL flightplans which have been there for many years, a developer can use SimConnect to create and operate AI objects (not only aircraft). To do that, you have 4 options

1. Slew: not only your own aircraft can be put into slew mode, any object can. You can then move it through the Simulator world by sending axis slew commands to it.

2. Freeze and move: this means freezing the object, and then moving it every single frame by changing its position and orientation.

3. Sending it a waypoint list: when you do this, the object will follow that list on its own accord, under control of the simulator AI logic (AI meant literally, this logic controls ALL moving objects, not only aircraft)

4. Sending it a flight plan (only for aircraft): this is the most extenive method, as it puts the aircraft under "control" of the simulator ATC (=Aircraft will ask for clearance, taxi out, depart, land and taxi in on their own, while all the time talking to ATC).

To my best knowledge, UTL uses method 4, as did UT2 before it.

PSXSeecon probably uses method 1 or 2 - but only Kiek can answer that.

In Lorby Live Traffic you have a choice between method 3 and 4.

Best regards

Edited June 19, 2018 by Lorby_SI

[unc1rlm 31]

My head is spinning 😯

BobM

[fluffyflops 1,856]

Its an OK product. Ive got it, what's incredibly frustrating is the power pack isn't available so you can't add or update the schedules with out alot of faffing around. I understand the developer has family issues, but he did this before with ut2. 

My honest opinion I don't think we will ever see the power pack and the product will stay in the beta quality it is at the moment 

[vgbaron 3,597]

However, for those who just want decent AI and are not concerned about specific carriers and flight schedules, it's a great product. Much less performance hit than other ai solutions and really shortens the load time of the P3D.

I've tried freeware and payware AI and , to me, this is the best of the bunch.

 

Vic