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Excellent Response by FSLabs

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@kingm56  You're right on some things indeed but there's something in common among all those great developers you mention: Not a single Airbus. Deep simulations of airbus systems have been absent forever until fslabs arrived.

Dont you remember the days of airsimmer? "The mathematics of the sky"? and airliner-xp? "The airbus you're waiting for"?


Juan Ramos
 

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1 hour ago, xender said:

Dont you remember the days of airsimmer? "The mathematics of the sky"? 

Actually, yes, and I still have it as a bookmark!

 


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The whole saga is a massive overreaction. Anyway, what is it about this "Froogle" bloke that makes so many hang off every word he says?


David Porrett

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3 hours ago, xender said:

@kingm56  You're right on some things indeed but there's something in common among all those great developers you mention: Not a single Airbus. Deep simulations of airbus systems have been absent forever until fslabs arrived.

Dont you remember the days of airsimmer? "The mathematics of the sky"? and airliner-xp? "The airbus you're waiting for"?

Indeed I do, Juan. I remember AirSimmer and many others, which is why I'm critical of FS developers.  For some reason, this genera seems plagued by developers willing to take our money but not make good on their promises.  If we hold developers to higher standards, we might be able to avoid the next AirSimmer....  


Matt King

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FSL have always been an honest company trying to survive in the hostile environment of retail software development.  It's difficult to see one's 3-5 years worth of work and huge financial investment be stolen ... it's a hard pill to swallow and obviously triggered a reaction.  That reaction created some questionable decisions but it has NOT changed the quality of their efforts/work.  If you were to lay out a list of implemented features on FSL A320 vs. any other aircraft on any other platform the FSL A320 is top of that list.

Pete Wright (Froogle) has bias bone to pick with FSL but as pointed out, Pete and Robert R / PMDG have an established relationship/history so I would take Pete's comments with a dash of bias (there is more to this than is made public).  There are non-sponsored/monetized reviews (Mutley's) dotted around the web that give a far better in depth impression/review of the FSL A320 without any focus on "drama" or bias.

The irony is that pirates can't exist without honest customers.  No honest customers = no sales revenue =  no software development = nothing to steal ... so who's really "in control" of current and future products from any vendor 😉

I think many that are very much into flight and flight simulation don't have a problem forgetting and forgiving and moving past the drama.  I'm looking forward to the soon to be released FSL A319 and hopefully the new FSL Concorde later in the year.

Cheers, Rob.

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1 hour ago, DavidP said:

...Anyway, what is it about this "Froogle" bloke that makes so many hang off every word he says?

Nothing, as far as I can tell.

As to piracy, FSL was correct about protecting their intellectual property, Unfortunately their specific method of protection was deemed too intrusive by a small minority of flight sim users. It reminds me of a story of a friend of mine who worked in retail. He had just come from work and was telling everyone that two guys had come into the men's wear department, picked a bunch of stuff off of hangars and casually walked out without paying. Yeah, he said,  the anti-theft tag alarm went off and yeah there was a security guard. So I asked him why they didn't chase after the thieves. He said corporate had a policy of  "planned shrinkage" and it was not worth the risk to chase shoplifters through the store and the mall. The cost of shrinkage was built into the cost of goods sold to paying customers. It's a stupid system, but I guess that FSL also decided to go with the flow. 

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1 hour ago, Rob Ainscough said:

Pete Wright (Froogle) has bias bone to pick with FSL but as pointed out, Pete and Robert R / PMDG have an established relationship/history so I would take Pete's comments with a dash of bias (there is more to this than is made public).  There are non-sponsored/monetized reviews (Mutley's) dotted around the web that give a far better in depth impression/review of the FSL A320 without any focus on "drama" or bias.

Completely agree!  Another one would be "Blackbox711".  He seems to know much more about the Airbus (stating he was a RW Airbus pilot at one time & the depth of Airbus procedures he displays in his videos) and would value his opinion more so over Froogle.

At the end of the day, it's my choice and not one Youtube'r will influence that!

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Cheers,
Todd

 

CXA557-2.jpg

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Though not a fair comparison, right now there are hundreds and hundreds of taxpayers out there who had recently had their Federal 2017 tax refunds diverted to a thief.  Direct deposit Social Security checks are re-directed on-line to more thieves. (My wife, who has since passed, had this done to her - S.S. reimbursed the losses ).

Point is, the number of such thefts are a known quantity.  Question is, can FSL, or any other flight sim    payware company quantify the number of thefts through piracy?  Or the amount of lost profits to such piracy?  Or, are they all just guestimates?  

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2 hours ago, DavidP said:

The whole saga is a massive overreaction. Anyway, what is it about this "Froogle" bloke that makes so many hang off every word he says?

He had an opinion which people didn't like.  You don't have to agree or not agree with him, no one is forcing you. He said negitive things about them, in this pc, fluffy, every gets offended about everything world about everything, you're not allowed an opinion that other people don't like. I'm amazed no one's  call him a troll yet. Matthias from aerosoft has said much worse things about fsl, but no one gives a 💩 about that do they. 

Rob is right the fsl is a fantastic product, but no ones forcing you to watch froggle, and no ones forcing you to agree with him or not. And if you don't agree with him it's means Jack💩 , it's just one person's opinion, thats all

 


 
 
 
 
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I would love to know what where the opinions about FSLabs if there where a cheaper study level airbus for P3D... although i dont agree with many opinions from Froogle, there where 2 subjects that i valued his opinion 100%... FSLabs and Dovetail Games!


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I think this is a good step forward for them as a company. They just need to come to terms with piracy, it will always be there and they will always find a way. If you provide good service and a good product I believe your return will outweigh what has been stolen. Sadly this is just the world we live in, retail stores can set up cameras, security alarms at the entrances.. but yet theifs always find a way around it.  Merchandise will always be stolen no matter how hard you try to deter it. 

This is just me thinking, I have no data to back this up but in the whole grand scheme of PC gaming, flight simulators have to be a pretty small share. And with people that intend to pirate flight simulator software I would assume is a really small percentage compared to legitimate buyers. There can't be that big of a black market on the dark webs for let's say a cracked FSL Airbus is there?


Is it done yet? When will it be released? Will it be freeware or payware? How much will it cost? Any updates on the progress? Will it work for Xbox? Can I be a beta tester? How's the performance in VR?

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5 hours ago, Rob Ainscough said:

FSL have always been an honest company trying to survive in the hostile environment of retail software development.  It's difficult to see one's 3-5 years worth of work and huge financial investment be stolen ... it's a hard pill to swallow and obviously triggered a reaction.  That reaction created some questionable decisions but it has NOT changed the quality of their efforts/work.  If you were to lay out a list of implemented features on FSL A320 vs. any other aircraft on any other platform the FSL A320 is top of that list.

Pete Wright (Froogle) has bias bone to pick with FSL but as pointed out, Pete and Robert R / PMDG have an established relationship/history so I would take Pete's comments with a dash of bias (there is more to this than is made public).  There are non-sponsored/monetized reviews (Mutley's) dotted around the web that give a far better in depth impression/review of the FSL A320 without any focus on "drama" or bias.

The irony is that pirates can't exist without honest customers.  No honest customers = no sales revenue =  no software development = nothing to steal ... so who's really "in control" of current and future products from any vendor 😉

I think many that are very much into flight and flight simulation don't have a problem forgetting and forgiving and moving past the drama.  I'm looking forward to the soon to be released FSL A319 and hopefully the new FSL Concorde later in the year.

Cheers, Rob.

Thank you, Rob!!!

Finally someone who can shed some light on this, without this turning into a rant-fest about personal insults and totally unsubstantiated attacks, with FSLabs and its employees on the receiving end... 

Now, could you please print it in huge letters, in every newspaper in the world? There's still some people, who haven't gotten the message...

Edited by Anders Bermann
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Best regards,
--Anders Bermann--
____________________
Scandinavian VA

Pilot-ID: SAS2471

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Why is anyone acting like these guys are our friends and pals that are just misunderstood? What we are seeing is damage control nothing more nothing less. There is nothing wrong with it, however, please make sure you understand this "Aww shucks" attitude they are adopting is tantamount to an attempt to repair their image.

 

In regard to "rant fest" and "unsubstantiated attacks" I fully believe that if you ARE installing ad bots and spy ware on my machine I should, at least, know this upfront. Then let me decide if the fancy airplane addon is possibly worth a security breach. 

 

In regard to Froogle, he can say whatever he likes. If the FSLabs A32X series gets mega popular he's going to have to eat his words and talk about it to remain relevant. Regardless of his implied "relationship" with anyone. 🤨

 

In conclusion, they've done questionable tactics more than once. Even though I'm not sure anyone has been personally affected, they still took liberties with what they installed on our computers. "Forgetting and forgiving" a for profit company is akin to handing over your wallet. If there were another company that had a "study level" Airbus, I'd love to see how this exact scenario would play out.

 

Print this in every newspaper around the world, "For profit companies are NOT your friends.  They want your money; the choice is yours".

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"I am the Master of the Fist!" -Akuma
 

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1 hour ago, SKEWR said:

In regard to "rant fest" and "unsubstantiated attacks" I fully believe that if you ARE installing ad bots and spy ware on my machine I should, at least, know this upfront. Then let me decide if the fancy airplane addon is possibly worth a security breach. 

Are you kidding?! It's a bit more grey than that. I'm really tired of all these people, who make it sound like FlightSimLabs is just some big bad corporation, who's only interested in exploiting you, your money and good faith! You sound like they're after everybody, and doesn't care about anybody. 

Yes! I understand, that they've made some bad choices - but first of all, it's not unheard of in the software industry, for companies to make such calls. That doesn't make it right, but it isn't really surprising - I for all, wasn't. It's a constant battle and as the pirates gets better at cracking/cheating the protection schemes, the companies take more and more drastic measures at protecting their software and rights. The choice FlightSimLabs made, was a desperate act, to combat the piracy of their software. That doesn't make the choices right, but I can understand where they're coming from, and what led to the decision. When realizing the size of their mistake, they have removed it. Apologized for it and even offered a refund.
The people who didn't utilize this offer, have - by definition - accepted their apology to an extend, that they're willing to maintain their customer relationship with FlightSimLabs; Myself included! Forgive and forget, I'd say in this instance.
Those who utilized the refund offer - well, they're not a customer of FlightSimLabs anymore and by such, isn't subject to their policies and measures anymore.

1 hour ago, SKEWR said:

Print this in every newspaper around the world, "For profit companies are NOT your friends.  They want your money; the choice is yours".

Again - it's not so black and white, as you lay it out! Yes, they're not your friends. They are - of course - interested in selling their products. But also maintaining a good customer relationship! It's key for survival in any business. 

Sorry for the rant, but I'm having a hard time grasping the degree of rage, anger and offensiveness, which apparently still exists in the community. On the other hand, humans are excellent in grouping together, whipping up the pathos-toned argumentation and uproar towards a common goal.

In my opinion, it's just a little sad, that we haven't come any further and are able - as a community - to rise above the close-mindedness and look at this 'in the helicopter perspective' for what it actually is.

Call me naive, but that's how I see it.

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Best regards,
--Anders Bermann--
____________________
Scandinavian VA

Pilot-ID: SAS2471

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1 hour ago, SKEWR said:

If the FSLabs A32X series gets mega popular he's going to have to eat his words and talk about it to remain relevant.

I'd be surprised if he mentions it again - for any reason - although this latest stance from FSLabs is newsworthy..

 

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