4.3 - Dynamic Lighting & SSAA

[Nemo 1,305]

The performance of DL/SSAA is absolutely better on my system. I made a full uninstall-reinstall which took me half a day to have all my add-ons in place again. Not too bad, isn't it?  Then I tested my PMDG 747 at FB KSFO (and FTX SCA) and FT YSSY (and FTX AUS). Frames were set to unlimited.

With HDR on, 4xSSAA (!), 8xAF and moderate settings (adapted for night where you need no cloud shadows etc. ...) and with UTL active,  I could reach 23 fps at KSFO (28R) and 20 fps at YSSY (34L) - Nearly stutter free and no shimmering ... IMO, it is a big step forward, compared to my former install (4.2) where I only could get 12-15 fps with comparable settings.

[simbol 5,811]

Nemo,

What screen resolution do you have?

Regards,
Simbol

[JoeFackel 760]

7 minutes ago, simbol said:

Nemo,

What screen resolution do you have?

Regards,
Simbol

Look at his sig 😉

[simbol 5,811]

2 minutes ago, JoeFackel said:

Look at his sig 😉

I did it looks like 4K, I just want to confirm he is actually playing P3D at 4K because if he is there is no point in using SSAA anti aliasing.

He is taxing his system with Super Sampling when it is absolutely unnecessary.

Regards,
Simbol

 

 

[JoeFackel 760]

4 minutes ago, simbol said:

He is taxing his system with Super Sampling when it is absolutely unnecessary.

If he does he's for sure not the only one. Saw several others using SSAA on 4K. I don't wonder anymore, there are also people believing in homeopathy and snake oil 🤩

[onurair 24]

1 minute ago, simbol said:

I did it looks like 4K, I just want to confirm he is actually playing P3D at 4K because if he is there is no point in using SSAA anti aliasing.

He is taxing his system with Super Sampling when it is absolutely unnecessary.

Regards,
Simbol

 

 

Acutally there is. I am also on 4k but get shimmering when using only MSAA.
It gets even worse at night. So 4xSSAA is the key at the moment.  

[simbol 5,811]

I think I am going to take this opportunity to explain why you don't need xSSAA if you already have a 4K screen:

SSAA, or Super-Sample Anti-Aliasing is a brute force method of anti-aliasing. It results in the best image quality but comes at a tremendous resource cost. SSAA works by rendering the scene at a higher resolution, 2x SSAA renders the scene at twice the resolution along each axis (4x the pixel count), 4x SSAA renders the scene at four times the resolution along each axis (16x the pixel) count, and 8x SSAA renders the scene at eight times the resolution along each axis (64x the pixel count). The final image is produced by downsampling the massive source image using an averaging filter. This acts as a low pass filter which removes the high frequency components that caused the jaggedness.

So if you are running at P3D 4K and use 4xSSAA in reality you are rendering at each frame per second a scene with a resolution of 13760x5760  [(3440x1440) x 4].

If you run any video game already at 4K you don't need to use any anti aliasing technique, the human eye already will not notice any difference, this video might help to explain it better:

Your display screen resolution at 4K already takes care of the pixelation in hence the name Ultra High Definition (UHD), so software algorithms to correct pixelation are unnecessary and by removing them you will still have an amazing resolution experience and increase the simulation performance.

All the best,

Simbol

Edited June 27, 2018 by simbol

[Nemo 1,305]

Thanks for your comments, The Screen Resolution is what is sometiomes called 3K. I'd like to add that with my former install (4.2) and the same hardware, I could not get acceptable visuals with AA lower than 4xSSAA. There was too much shimmering at night. Now, with 4xSSAA I see no shimmering at all and I have a much better performance. I agree, I have not yet tested other AA settings, but I will do later this day.

Edited June 27, 2018 by Nemo

[onurair 24]

4 minutes ago, simbol said:

I think I am going to take this opportunity to explain why you don't need xSSAA if you already have a 4K screen:

SSAA, or Super-Sample Anti-Aliasing is a brute force method of anti-aliasing. It results in the best image quality but comes at a tremendous resource cost. SSAA works by rendering the scene at a higher resolution, 2x SSAA renders the scene at twice the resolution along each axis (4x the pixel count), 4x SSAA renders the scene at four times the resolution along each axis (16x the pixel) count, and 8x SSAA renders the scene at eight times the resolution along each axis (64x the pixel count). The final image is produced by downsampling the massive source image using an averaging filter. This acts as a low pass filter which removes the high frequency components that caused the jaggedness.

So if you are running at P3D 4K and use 4xSSAA in reality you are rendering at each frame per second a scene with a resolution of 13760x5760  [(3440x1440) x 4].

If you run any video game already at 4K you don't need to use any anti aliasing technique, the human eye already will not notice any difference, this video might help to explain it better:

Your display screen resolution at 4K already takes care of the pixelation in hence the name Ultra High Definition (UHD), so software algorithms to correct pixelation are unnecessary and by removing them you will still have an amazing resolution experience and increase the simulation performance.

All the best,

Simbol

Thank you for the detailled explanation. You're right there is no reason to use SSAA in terms of aliasing. Visually you can't see a difference in using MSAA and SSAA in terms of jaged edges. How ever there is a huge difference in shimmering textures.
Tried JustSim LTAI last night. With MSAA the whole terminal was shimmering. With SSAA sharp and crisp without ants on the walls 🙂

[simbol 5,811]

Just now, onurair said:

Thank you for the detailled explanation. You're right there is no reason to use SSAA in terms of aliasing. Visually you can't see a difference in using MSAA and SSAA in terms of jaged edges. How ever there is a huge difference in shimmering textures.
Tried JustSim LTAI last night. With MSAA the whole terminal was shimmering. With SSAA sharp and crisp without ants on the walls 🙂

The source of the shimmering is what needs to be addressed, you are just hiding it by using SSAA. What is happening is that the scene is being super sampled and then down sampled so you don't see the shimmering but it is still there.

The right question is why you get shimmering?, it could be because textures are faulty (not properly developed), missing mipmaps, some settings using Nvidia inspector or faulty video drivers which cause the symptoms that you are describing.

I have a 4K Laptop and I don't experience any shimmering whatsoever when I am testing my products under 4K.

All the best,
Simbol

[ErichB 3,638]

24 minutes ago, simbol said:

I think I am going to take this opportunity to explain why you don't need xSSAA if you already have a 4K screen

Good old Linus.  

[Nemo 1,305]

6 minutes ago, simbol said:

The source of the shimmering is what needs to be addressed, you are just hiding it by using SSAA. What is happening is that the scene is being super sampled and then down sampled so you don't see the shimmering but it is still there.

The right question is why you get shimmering?, it could be because textures are faulty (not properly developed), missing mipmaps, some settings using Nvidia inspector or faulty video drivers which cause the symptoms that you are describing.

I have a 4K Laptop and I don't experience any shimmering whatsoever when I am testing my products under 4K.

All the best,
Simbol

You are probably right and SSAA covers the the shimmering only. But shimmering has been reported very often in context with AA/DL here in these forums. So it is a real problem. You say you don't have it on your 4K Notebook screen. Maybe the shimmering problem has much more to do with the size of the screen (and actually the density of pixels)?

Edited June 27, 2018 by Nemo

[AnkH 2,233]

10 minutes ago, Nemo said:

You say you don't have it on your 4K Notebook screen. Maybe the shimmering problem has much more to do with the size of the screen (and actually the density of pixels)?

I guess this is related. I always suffered from shimmering on my previous FullHD 23" monitor, (96ppi) now with the 27" 1440p monitor (109ppi), the shimmering is not so obvious anymore. Seems that this little increase in pixel density already reduced the recognition of shimmering to a certain extend.

[simbol 5,811]

30 minutes ago, AnkH said:

I guess this is related. I always suffered from shimmering on my previous FullHD 23" monitor, (96ppi) now with the 27" 1440p monitor (109ppi), the shimmering is not so obvious anymore. Seems that this little increase in pixel density already reduced the recognition of shimmering to a certain extend.

My Laptop 4k screen is 17" inches.

Maybe certain screens are prune than others.

S.

[gboz 157]

59 minutes ago, simbol said:

have a 4K Laptop and I don't experience any shimmering whatsoever when I am testing my products under 4K. 

All the best,
Simbol

What works for a 4K laptop is not going to work for a big 4K TV/monitor.

A 4K 65" screen has a pixel density about the same as a 27" 1080p so it will need the same level of AA as that 1080 screen. Nobody uses SSAA for the fun of it but because it is necessary. My 4K 65" needs SSAA to get rid of the jaggies, so I use it.

gb.

Edited June 27, 2018 by gboz