Thoughts on Brunner CLS-E NG Yoke?

[Justin Tolerable 2]

Hi all - I literally created an account to ask this (love the forum, by the way).  Do any of you have the CLS-E NG yoke?  There's basically no information out there about it beyond official stuff.  I'm looking for first impressions and reviews, but I guess it's too new.

My main concern is the travel.  At 90mm it seems very short, but does it feel that way in practice?  I can't say the lower forces bother me that much, but if you have one do you regret not getting the regular CLS-E?

I'm moving from a Yoko, which I really love.  I'm around half way through my PPL though, and I feel like being able to feel the wind, turbulence and variance in amount of control input needed at slow speed etc would be a real help.

[MarkDH 234]

2 hours ago, Nick Savage said:

I feel like being able to feel the wind, turbulence and variance in amount of control input needed at slow speed etc would be a real help.

I'd make sure you're actually going to feel all of those things before investing. It would rely on Brunner having created the software to simulate those things.

I had an Iris Dynamics yoke, which gave me three options for software. First, use the yoke in standalone mode, which simulated elevator trim and nothing else. Second, use FSX native FFB mode, which appeared to behave very illogically and hence was useless. And third (what most people do), use FS Force. The latter simulates control forces in proportion to airspeed, elevator trim and a few effects such as braking and runway bumps. None of these options simulated real environmental effects such as gusts or turbulence.

[Justin Tolerable 2]

Hmmmmm.  True.

I would actually be using it in XPlane, and the reviews I've seen of the CLS-E suggest that most of this is simulated very well.  I'm unsure as to whether the effect is 'baked in' to the controller software or if it truely comes from the simulation itself, though.  In all honestly, that doesn't actually matter too much to me.  What matters is that there is some kind of simulation of that effect for me to deal with.

The question is, does all the above also apply to the NG version?  Have I even got this right?

[mikealpha 266]

Hi Nick,

I don't have the CLS-E NG, just the normal CLS-E since two years. It has 150mm travel and I find that just perfect related to my real Cessna/Piper experience. 90mm sounds a bit low indeed.

Generally and probably the biggest advantage of the Yoke : Trim feels much more real, as you really "trim" away the forces.

The double force in the CLS-E is really not needed for Cessna/Piper flying, almost half of that as in the NG should be OK.

Just fun to setup maximum force for planes like the DC-8. But that is  based on imagination 🙂

Mike

Edited June 27, 2018 by mikealpha

[Justin Tolerable 2]

Thanks Mike!

I'm right on the edge of buying either at the moment.  I just wish I had something for comparison.  If the travel was higher in the NG, I'd have it in a moment.  I'm really only interested in small single engine environments, possibly one day small twin six seaters.

I just can't get over the feeling that while you may never really use 150mm travel in practice, it's the impact on sensitivity that bothers me.  If travel is higher, you should theoretically have finer controls.  I think I'm talking myself into the CLS-E, to be honest...

[Justin Tolerable 2]

UPDATE:  For better or for worse, I've pulled the trigger on the NG.  I've been in contact with Brunner about it and they assure me that they have had nothing but very positive responses - he even downsold me from the CLS-E.  They are very nice to talk to, that's for sure.

Once I get it, I'll write a review and maybe even record something so that there is a little more information out there for others looking to buy one.  Thanks to those who responded!

[Guest]

Yes please do write a review ... I've been following Brunner yokes and curious about FF latency and like you the yoke's travel range.

Cheers, Rob.

[Jovabra 18]

4 hours ago, Nick Savage said:

Hi all - I literally created an account to ask this (love the forum, by the way).  Do any of you have the CLS-E NG yoke?  There's basically no information out there about it beyond official stuff.  I'm looking for first impressions and reviews, but I guess it's too new.

My main concern is the travel.  At 90mm it seems very short, but does it feel that way in practice?  I can't say the lower forces bother me that much, but if you have one do you regret not getting the regular CLS-E?

I'm moving from a Yoko, which I really love.  I'm around half way through my PPL though, and I feel like being able to feel the wind, turbulence and variance in amount of control input needed at slow speed etc would be a real help.

Nick,

I have the Brunner yoke ca. 2 years and i'm very happy with this pice of hardware. Great service and to the point answers if you have questions. Don't hesitate if  you have question. Send an e-mail to info@brunner-innovation.swiss. This yoke is not comparable with any other yoke. Feel the difference if you enable the 737 profile and the c172. In all other yoke's same feelings for big aircrafts or GA aircrafts. I have the 150 mm set and also the rudders. What about the 90 mm, this is the same pitch travel as the Saitek yoke.
Regards
Jo va Bra
(i'm not involved in any way with Brunner)

[Justin Tolerable 2]

3 hours ago, Jovabra said:

Nick,

I have the Brunner yoke ca. 2 years and i'm very happy with this pice of hardware. Great service and to the point answers if you have questions. Don't hesitate if  you have question. Send an e-mail to info@brunner-innovation.swiss. This yoke is not comparable with any other yoke. Feel the difference if you enable the 737 profile and the c172. In all other yoke's same feelings for big aircrafts or GA aircrafts. I have the 150 mm set and also the rudders. What about the 90 mm, this is the same pitch travel as the Saitek yoke.
Regards
Jo va Bra
(i'm not involved in any way with Brunner)

That's really helpful, thank you. I think the issue with the travel is two-fold. Firstly, I'm flying a PA28 in reality, so I'm trying to come as close to matching that as possible. Secondly, I have a Yoko at the minute with 144mm travel and I'm worried about taking any kind of "backwards step" here.

My other niggling worry is more about the rotational force being reduced. I don't really have frame of reference, but I'm worried I won't feel strong effects at 1.7n rotational force.

Ultimately though, I've decided that Brunner probably know what they are doing, right? They have a spotless reputation and I think I trust the decisions they've made.

That being said, a big part of me is considering getting in touch this evening and upgrading my order 😄

 

[Jovabra 18]

Nick
All forces are adjustable. If you select the right standard profile as a start item you can adjusted the roll/pitch force to what you want. Maybe not to realistic values but it possible. If you start with the basic C172 your elevator is full down at the ground due to no wind force. If you accelerate you feel the the force on your elevator and it comes to neutral if your speed is about 60 kts. Even the pressure on the aileron is also increasing so your rotational force adjustble. If you want to feel motor vibration in the yoke? it is posible. I don't lile it but that's another question. I'm using the yoke most of the time for the PMDG 737 and you can activate the hydraulic logic so if you have a total hydraulic failure you feel it in the force to control the aircraft.

Regards
Jo va Bra

[threexgreen 3,133]

Excuse me for potentially hijacking this, but if I may chime in here, I'm about to pull the trigger on the Agronn 737 yoke in the next few days which is ... some cash. I stumbled upon this thread and I'm wondering what the force talk and feeling wind and all is about? I can't seem to find much on their website.

Thank you

[Justin Tolerable 2]

27 minutes ago, threegreen said:

Excuse me for potentially hijacking this, but if I may chime in here, I'm about to pull the trigger on the Agronn 737 yoke in the next few days which is ... some cash. I stumbled upon this thread and I'm wondering what the force talk and feeling wind and all is about? I can't seem to find much on their website.

Thank you

The Brunner yokes are control loaded, so behave far more like those in a real plane.  This allegedly includes affects of wind and turbulance, along with fixing the biggest problem with non-force yokes (for me, at least) - realisting trimming.  They achieve this through very sophisticated force feedback and have a price tag to match.  The most common here is the CLS-E, which is reviewed and explained well here:

https://youtu.be/-oj_RwD950I

and here

https://youtu.be/aMRwEUq8uko

However, recently they have released a cheaper version of this yoke, with the suffix 'NG' (https://www.brunner-innovation.swiss/product/cls-e-ng-yoke/).  The tradeoff appears to be that the maximum force it's able to generate is significantly less and the travel is roughly half that of it's bigger brother.  I'm trying to decide if it would still be realistic for a PA28.

I think it should be okay.  I'm still considering upgrading my order to the regular CLS-E, because I don't want to find myself upgrading again in the near future.  I only bought my lovely Yoko a few months ago!

[busdriver 258]

Nick,

I'm sure you have thought it through, but those yokes are around 2K US. That equals a decent amount of actual flying time in a real airplane. You mention being halfway through training, and 2K will buy you a decent amount of cross country flying, along with dual instruction as needed. Just my 2 cents, but I would think real yoke time would be better than a simulated one.

Regardless, best of luck with your training!

 

 

[Justin Tolerable 2]

3 minutes ago, busdriver said:

Nick,

I'm sure you have thought it through, but those yokes are around 2K US. That equals a decent amount of actual flying time in a real airplane. You mention being halfway through training, and 2K will buy you a decent amount of cross country flying, along with dual instruction as needed. Just my 2 cents, but I would think real yoke time would be better than a simulated one.

Regardless, best of luck with your training!

 

 

Of course, don't worry! Real flying comes first and that's got its own bank account all ready for me to finish.

Simming is mostly used for those weeks when weather prohibits flying, or weeks like this one when the plane is at its annual.

Budget isn't really the problem. It's time. I have kids and a business, flying in my home when I get a minute is really important to me 😉

 

[Spit40 197]

May I ask - Did you go for it?