honanhal

QW787 current status?

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2 hours ago, GCBraun said:

Never had LNAV issues? I find that hard to believe...I experience issues on almost every curve. I think that you are just not paying attention.

The aircraft has potential, though.

 

2 hours ago, garydpoole said:

I think with an ill-though out comment like that, this thread is heading for closure. Which would be a shame for those who are following it... 

 

22 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

Why? Can`t we criticize products here anymore? It is a fact that the aircraft has LNAV problems. Even the developer`s have recognized that.

You didn't criticize any product, you only critcized me. I agree with gardpoole on this one. Your comment has no contribution to this thread other than not believing my results and telling me I don't pay attention. We don't really know how many people bought the 787 do we, maybe a thousand.. two thousand... how many people complained of bugs.. a hundred? I find that pretty good odds. Most of the time the people who are most happy and content with a product are not the most vocal in the forums.

Look, I have not had any problems with this 787, I've flown entire flights with the WX radar on, not one crash. I've never had to correct a route or overshot anything LNAV related. You don't have to believe me thats fine but I'm just trying to tell the original poster of this thread that I've had great results with this aircraft.

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Well, I don’t know what to believe. I guess the takeaway is if I buy it it may be fine, or it may have all kinds of problems (PWJTD8D even likes the plane and he’s giving that a 5-10% chance!).

Uh, that’s...not great?

Anyway, thanks all the same for all the feedback, guys. I’m as unsure as ever but at least I have more data!

James

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I have 5 days left on my refund window, and I'm honestly considering it.  The combination of little and significant issues adding up that just aren't making the aircraft feel "right" for me.

Edited by CaptKornDog
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3 hours ago, CaptKornDog said:

I have 5 days left on my refund window, and I'm honestly considering it.  The combination of little and significant issues adding up that just aren't making the aircraft feel "right" for me.

Hey Kyle,

I'd saddened that you can't seem to get your issues worked out as I know you want to enjoy this plane as much as anyone, but of course your return option with Flight1 is probably the best thing in our simming world when we're confronted with software that just won't work properly on our machine.

With that said....I think EVERY person in this thread who's "on the fence" as to a purchase of this plane should be reminded once again that since this is a Flight1 vendored product...you have 30 days to try it yourself to see if its either going to work on your machine to your satisfaction or not. 😉  

In fact I did exactly that when the FSX version of the 787 came out...because I was curious to how she would work in FSX, even though I had long since moved on to P3D.  I returned it after 20 or so days....and repurchased the P3d version when it released as I knew I'd already "test drove" her in FSX and liked what I saw.

I've been in the "works almost flawlessly" camp since I purchased it, never had a CTD, aware of the issues where it overshoots a tad on turns, never experienced TOD or major VNAV issues (although I usually manage my own descents). 

I know this product is going to get better over time.  I basically hung out with the QW crew at the Vegas conference as their booth was next to the one I was manning for FSReborn.  I found them to be a great bunch of guys and really just crazy simmers like all of us who decided to pool their collective talent and build our community the best 787 to date.  They want this product to be great as much as we do, and I feel all they need is time and support to keep improving the product.

I hope that if they can get all the issues others are having ironed out and fixed, and I really hope you (Kyle) will continue to monitor the news about the aircraft... and if you see they've resolved the issues that are causing you to consider your return, you'll repurchase it and try it again.  I know Flight1 is very understanding about their refund policy and a simple explanation goes a long way to ensure you'll never have a problem returning and then repurchasing a product. (especially folks who have an established purchase history with them).

I've already painted a few 787s and the paintkit is absolutely excellent, the texture mapping decisions alone were reason enough for me to want to paint it, hehe.  I know Corey is a painter himself, and as President and CEO of the company, I suspect he had some influence on how the modeler mapped the textures. 😁

Anyway it flies even better for me in 4.3, and not sure if its a placebo effect, but I think it actually looks better too.

 

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Hello:

Thought I'd share this from the QW forum.

"There is constant work being done. As of right now, the only official planned update is the PIP or product improvement package. This will include the -10, as well as bug fixes. 

 
However, be on the look out for any hot fixes if we determine it necessary."

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14 hours ago, honanhal said:

Well, I don’t know what to believe. I guess the takeaway is if I buy it it may be fine, or it may have all kinds of problems (PWJTD8D even likes the plane and he’s giving that a 5-10% chance!).

Uh, that’s...not great?

Anyway, thanks all the same for all the feedback, guys. I’m as unsure as ever but at least I have more data!

James

Your letting one really bad negative experience comment deter your from a purchase decision? Could be something else in his setup conflicting otherwise everyone would have it. Most have bee pleased with it. Its easy to deal with the small issues.  Ive not had CTD related to the 787. I think its a great aircraft, despite some issues, but they certainly arent show stoppers. If you really want to a 787, then go get it and try it out. You have the refund option, but be more open minded and support our developers who are trying their best. They do recognize and work on it.  I cant imagine it being easy with all the different systems out there. 

I honestly dont understand why LNAV and VNAV are show stoppers for people. Ever heard of HDG mode?  V/S mode?  Use them if the aircraft is not responding as it should . Take over. Your the captain. LNAV and VNAV are not the be all for flying. If my aircraft is not flying a turn properly, intercept next waypoint with heading mode. This will work better anyhow with vectors into any airport and ATC. In cruise its likely straight and mild turns. LNAV wont be an issue. 

And again to reiterate, its not PMDG pricing, its way more reasonable, so frame it in that context.   

Have fun!

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2 minutes ago, HighTowers said:

I honestly dont understand why LNAV and VNAV are show stoppers for people. Ever heard of HDG mode?  V/S mode? 

I think this explains it all really. Yeah, why bother complaining that LNAV/VNAV should work properly? Just use HDG or V/S mode guys! Problem solved. 🙂

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6 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

I think this explains it all really. Yeah, why bother complaining that LNAV/VNAV should work properly? Just use HDG or V/S mode guys! Problem solved. 🙂

No I'm not saying its an excuse. And I dont recall QW saying that.  Of course it should be fixed. But its been hammered into me from a relative with over 30 yrs flying heavies, if the aircraft is not behaving the way it should, then take over with another action. You dont give up and crash the plane just because VNAV doesnt want to initiate descent. As far as I cant tell, they are working it out.  The CRJ had the same issue with LNAV tracking  and it took about 5 updates before they got it closer to what it should be. Not an easy fix. 

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10 minutes ago, HighTowers said:

No I'm not saying its an excuse. And I dont recall QW saying that.  Of course it should be fixed. But its been hammered into me from a relative with over 30 yrs flying heavies, if the aircraft is not behaving the way it should, then take over with another action. You dont give up and crash the plane just because VNAV doesnt want to initiate descent. As far as I cant tell, they are working it out.  The CRJ had the same issue with LNAV tracking  and it took about 5 updates before they got it closer to what it should be. Not an easy fix. 

Of course you would try to solve the issue with alternative measures. The thing is that LNAV/VNAV problems IRL are not that common and, if it happens during a flight, it would surely demand maintenance work to get it fixed asap. The QW787, on the other hand, usually has significant difficulties following SID/STAR profiles that are just a bit more curvy than a straight line. It is not something that happens once in a while unfortunately...

 

 

Edited by GCBraun

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On 7/6/2018 at 8:45 AM, B777ER said:

Yikes, I thought that the VNAV was still not fixed, thanks for confirmation. Random CTD are a definite show stopper. Especially when you consider this plane is used for long haul type flying. I do my stuff in real time and not about to throw 10 hours out the window if one of these random CTD crop up. Will wait for more polish to be applied. 

I just flew IAD-GRU real-time dodging weather with the WX radar and no issues. I’m a happy camper so far!

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On 7/7/2018 at 5:12 AM, joemiller said:

"It's not a PMDG quality"  ???  I didn't know PMDG has a 787.

 

 

Quality control applies any product.  

This BS of ‘it doesn’t work properly but that’s ok because is not a PMDG price ‘ is absolute claptrap. BASIC functionality in this kind of aircraft means fully functional VNAV and LNAV modes because that is exactly what the aircraft is designed to do - in its most basic day-to-day operation

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18 minutes ago, ErichB said:

Quality control applies any product.  

This BS of ‘it doesn’t work properly but that’s ok because is not a PMDG price ‘ is absolute claptrap. BASIC functionality in this kind of aircraft means fully functional VNAV and LNAV modes because that is exactly what the aircraft is designed to do - in its most basic day-to-day operation

Yup! Lack of depth shouldn't mean that it is allowed to have major bugs.

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5 hours ago, HighTowers said:

Your letting one really bad negative experience comment deter your from a purchase decision?

The comment I was referring to was someone who liked and recommended the airplane, and was (like you) trying to acknowledge, but downplay, the people who are having issues by saying it was only a couple hundred people out of more than a thousand. I was pointing out that those still really aren’t stellar odds, speaking as a potential buyer.

Beyond that, did you read this thread? It’s almost evenly divided between people like you who say they’re never had a CTD, seen the LNAV overshoot a turn, or experienced any other problems, and people who say they’ve experienced all those issues. It’s not “one really bad negative comment.”

I admit it’s strange how inconsistent people’s results are with this plane. It’s one thing to say “well, maybe your LNAV turns are also messed up but you’re not paying attention”, but a CTD is a CTD. Bizarre that some people aren’t (apparently) getting them at all while others still are.

I’m not trying to hold this plane to some unfairly high standard. I just want an addon that doesn’t crash — and yes, to me a broken LNAV/VNAV is a dealbreaker. I’m not going to buy a 21st-century airliner to fly it like a 707 (although obviously some do!).

James

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I am giving this bird another shot now (OTHH -> EDDM). I have promised to keep it in the Hangar until more patches come out, since my last two flights ended with a CTD. Let`s see how it goes...

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1 hour ago, honanhal said:

I admit it’s strange how inconsistent people’s results are with this plane. It’s one thing to say “well, maybe your LNAV turns are also messed up but you’re not paying attention”, but a CTD is a CTD. Bizarre that some people aren’t (apparently) getting them at all while others still are.

Not so bizarre. I've seen it happen several times where an add-on installs a dll or library that is not compatible and conflicts with another and causes a crash. Either can exist on their own on someone's system and be perfectly happy. Have both present, and bang. Not saying that's what happening here, but there's a good chance.

Edited by odourboy
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I was having random CTDs with the QW 787 until I uninstalled P3D and reinstalled everything outside of the Windows 'Program Files' folder. Since doing that I've not had any issues.

It's a beautiful plane, a real pleasure to fly.

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So, just completed a semi-long-haul flight of 6 hours. Impressions:

 

Positives:

  • No CTD`s this time.

Negatives:

  • Sub-par LNAV performance:
  • The Airplane can`t get out of HOLDs. Had to use HDG/VS basically for 1 hour because even though I have armed the hold exit multiple times, the aircraft would refuse to continue with the route.

Back to the Hangar, I guess.

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I really like flying the 787 at the time being. It's not perfect, it has some LNAV issues as mentioned. But nothing that stops me from enjoying it. To be honest I did not touch any other plane since I got the 787. The PMDGs and FSLabs are having a timeout 😉

Edited by swiesma

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I find a couple of niggles, not sure if they are realistic. With a light fuel load (25 %) the aircraft creeps on taxi with no throttle, this makes parking tough. Also, she's a devil to slow down on descent, even with full spoilers. I've tried various cost indexes, but it needs manual intervention as you near approach to start reducing speed early or VNAV will end up too high to capture the glide slope.

Lawrence

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On 7/8/2018 at 4:18 AM, ErichB said:

Quality control applies any product.  

This BS of ‘it doesn’t work properly but that’s ok because is not a PMDG price ‘ is absolute claptrap. BASIC functionality in this kind of aircraft means fully functional VNAV and LNAV modes because that is exactly what the aircraft is designed to do - in its most basic day-to-day operation

And if QW wants to wait months and months for their PIP in lieu of issuing a hotfix to cure some basic aircraft functionality then my money can wait in my pocket. I do a lot of long distance flights where I am not at my computer the whole time. LNAV issues are a big concern for me personally. I don't want to wind up in the South Atlantic when I thought I should be over Canada.

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2 hours ago, LEdwards said:

I find a couple of niggles, not sure if they are realistic. With a light fuel load (25 %) the aircraft creeps on taxi with no throttle, this makes parking tough. Also, she's a devil to slow down on descent, even with full spoilers. I've tried various cost indexes, but it needs manual intervention as you near approach to start reducing speed early or VNAV will end up too high to capture the glide slope.

Lawrence

Most of these attributes sound fairly realistic.  Modern aircraft are aerodynamically efficient and are generally not that easy to slow down - so it takes some forward planning .  

You generally wouldn't be relying on cost indexes so close to the approach - it's irrelevant - and generally, manual interventions for speed and descent management of some kind are fairly realistic.

I'm sure someone will pop in and provide a more accurate answer, but it sounds like your queries are related to early learning experiences of flying digital airliners (we have all been there),  rather than issues with the aircraft itself -  in this instance.

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15 minutes ago, ErichB said:

Most of these attributes sound fairly realistic.  Modern aircraft are aerodynamically efficient and are generally not that easy to slow down - so it takes some forward planning .  

You generally wouldn't be relying on cost indexes so close to the approach - it's irrelevant - and generally, manual interventions for speed and descent management of some kind are fairly realistic.

I'm sure someone will pop in and provide a more accurate answer, but it sounds like your queries are related to early learning experiences of flying digital airliners (we have all been there),  rather than issues with the aircraft itself -  in this instance.

I thought the cost index influenced the speed of descent, in that Top Of Descent would differ? If descent doesn't start early enough then intervention is inevitable at approach IMO.

BTW I have been flight dimming since 1983 😁

 

 

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11 minutes ago, LEdwards said:

thought the cost index influenced the speed of descent,

It does, but you were talking about nearing approach - so unless your intention is to fully automate absolutely every phase and mode of your flight (which is not realistic, in the main), I wouldn't place to much faith in the simulated outputs in this case.  The aircraft is not perfect - as you have read in this thread.

11 minutes ago, LEdwards said:

BTW I have been flight dimming since 1983 😁

I started high school that year.  Bet that was on an Apple or ZX Spectrum.:)

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There is no VNAV logic. Airplane needs to slow by 100 knots at the next waypoint? LNAV logic in the real aircraft calculates it and gets the aircraft to raise the nose and descend more shallow to get the speed back.

This airplane no offense is using the default fsx AP logic. The throttles are not retarding for descent my N1 is 70% at descent. I like the looks of the aircraft & the cockpit style of the 787. I love the 787 routes a better mix of short or long haul your choice of real aircraft routes more than the 747 and 777. weather radar crashes even after the update. I hope a big update is coming. This could be in 1-3 months a nice addon.

Edited by Boeing or not going
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14 minutes ago, Boeing or not going said:

There is no VNAV logic. Airplane needs to slow by 100 knots at the next waypoint? LNAV logic in the real aircraft calculates it and gets the aircraft to raise the nose and descend more shallow to get the speed back.

This airplane no offense is using the default fsx AP logic. The throttles are not retarding for descent my N1 is 70% at descent. I like the looks of the aircraft & the cockpit style of the 787. I love the 787 routes a better mix of short or long haul your choice of real aircraft routes more than the 747 and 777. weather radar crashes even after the update. I hope a big update is coming. This could be in 1-3 months a nice addon.

That's weird because for me the VNAV does work and auto throttles and rate of descent both behave. The issue for me is that the weight of the aircraft seems to feel unrealistically low, i.e. too much lift. If you create drag by using spoliers and flaps it will keep to the correct speed and altitude on descent and approach.

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