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Ioan92

About that thread: P3D 4.1 CTD near Labrador [4.2 and 4.3 too]

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https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/526743-p3d-41-ctd-near-labrador/

I've read a bit on this thread and I'd like to inform whoever is trying to study this problem that the crashing isn't confined to westbound transatlantic flights neither is it bound by time. I've managed to get it both in the middle of Russia, near Vorkuta and near the international date line. Sometimes within one hour of each other. I've posted a thread on the P3D support forums so feel free to pitch in and help us all find the culprit with this issue.

http://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6312&t=130298

Cheers o/

Edited by Ioan92

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Your post mentions P3D 4.1.  Have you considered installing the 4.3 update?  I can get a crash also if I do not launch P3D on a fresh boot, especially if I have previously run any graphics intensive sims like Xplane11, or No Limits Coaster 2.  That is where I would start, 4.3 update, clean boot, then fly.  If I factor in the approx 100 hours I've spent on P3D, give or take I have had maybe a handful of random crashes, not enough to disturb me, and always invoked if I've run another app just before running P3D.  I am on P3D 4.3, and it has not crashed once, except for what I am about to post, which will make simmers laugh at my foolishness.

John

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5 minutes ago, Cactus521 said:

Your post mentions P3D 4.1.  Have you considered installing the 4.3 update?  I can get a crash also if I do not launch P3D on a fresh boot, especially if I have previously run any graphics intensive sims like Xplane11, or No Limits Coaster 2.  That is where I would start, 4.3 update, clean boot, then fly.  If I factor in the approx 100 hours I've spent on P3D, give or take I have had maybe a handful of random crashes, not enough to disturb me, and always invoked if I've run another app just before running P3D.  I am on P3D 4.3, and it has not crashed once, except for what I am about to post, which will make simmers laugh at my foolishness.

John

The original post refers to 4.1 but I assure you the issue was present in 4.2 and still is alive and kicking into 4.3.

Should update the thread title to avoid further confusion.

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I'm wondering if you've taken note of both the local and UTC time when these crashes occur.  Is it near midnight either local or UTC in the local timezone or in the timezone you're crossing into?  IOW, would crossing into the next timezone result in changing the date in local or UTC time (forward or backward)?

Regards

 

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5 minutes ago, w6kd said:

I'm wondering if you've taken note of both the local and UTC time when these crashes occur.  Is it near midnight either local or UTC in the local timezone or in the timezone you're crossing into?  IOW, would crossing into the next timezone result in changing the date in local or UTC time (forward or backward)?

Regards

 

Every single time I've gotten this error I've been caught with my pants down while I was away in the house, so I cannot provide this information. All I can vouch for is that the crash only occurs on westbound flights at some vaguely defined locations above russian airspace. The catch is that I've yet to fly a westerly transatlantic in P3D yet but I am ready to bet I will get the same ctd/ stackhash near labrador. I will try the restarting GSX tip in the old thread to see if it changes anything. Oddly enough, while GSX was bugged and you had to restart it to finish baggage loading I don't recall getting faults but this may be a long shot, as I didn't restart GSX on IAD-NRT which is a 14 hr flight that went flawlessly.

Something is probably messed up in the base scenery.

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One thing to suggest is fly this area in accelerated sim speed and then down to normal speed.  All fly all sorts of planes in these area by variety of users.  The more CTD found will help nail this bug....

I mean all sorts of flights - simple, complex planes etc.

Again just a suggestion....anyway my break is over, back to work

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I wonder if there's some sort of flight logger that could be used to track a flight and log some metrics so that place/time at least would be known.  Something that runs outside P3D, using FSUIPC to gather data for example, would be ideal, as it wouldn't crash with the sim.

Regards

 

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53 minutes ago, w6kd said:

I wonder if there's some sort of flight logger that could be used to track a flight and log some metrics so that place/time at least would be known.  Something that runs outside P3D, using FSUIPC to gather data for example, would be ideal, as it wouldn't crash with the sim.

Regards

 

Good idea Bob..., FSUIPC has a useful logger that I used a while back to trap VAS leakage (glad those days are gone).  It should be easy to set it up to sample every minute providing the lat/lon and then later add other parameters as desired.  The file gets big if you sample too often, but that shouldn't be a problem for most users.

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The only potential issue with using FSUIPC's logger is that it is a DLL, so it dies with the sim in a crash, so the most useful recent data might be lost.

Another thought comes to mind as I ponder this (I've never actuially seen this problem here since I generally use QuantumLeap to beam myself ahead to somewhere close to the TOD): it seems these incidents are happening at high lattitudes--another potential issue might be something unhappy in the magnetic <-> true conversion math in locations close to the magnetic pole(s).

Regards

 

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Just now, w6kd said:

The only potential issue with using FSUIPC's logger is that it is a DLL, so it dies with the sim in a crash, so the most useful recent data might be lost.

Another thought comes to mind as I ponder this (I've never actuially seen this problem here since I generally use QuantumLeap to beam myself ahead to somewhere close to the TOD): it seems these incidents are happening at high lattitudes--another potential issue might be something unhappy in the magnetic <-> true conversion math in locations close to the magnetic pole(s).

Regards

 

I think my ACARS program has a page showing present coordinates, I was however never inspired to take note of the last position it records. Next time it crashes I will take note and paste the location here.

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In  "Modules\FSUIPC Documents\Example LUA plugins"  there is a lua that will log what's needed up until the time of crash -- "record to csv.lua"
Would advise not to run it until close to the point of the known trouble area.

 

 

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I think the data that initially needs logged includes: position (lat/long), heading (true and mag), time (UTC and local), date (UTC and local), altitude, COM1/COM2 freq, wind (dir/speed), and outside air temp.

 

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1 hour ago, w6kd said:

it is a DLL, so it dies with the sim in a crash, so the most useful recent data might be lost.

True, but it is writing the log file as the session progresses, it is not buffering so at the most you lose the last second or sample point.  It is easy to use which is why I thought of it, being lazy.

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I use IFPro to ascertain the root causes of CTDs and problem addons.

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5 minutes ago, tooting said:

ive always thought it was something to do with tijmezones

Nope, that was an early hypothesis but never born out as possibly true.  Pretty much ruled out because it happens with or without time zone fixer, which completely replaces the timezone bgl data.

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Has anyone tried the sim with Time Zone fixer (I got on Sim-market for 7 Euros, apparently the sale never ends for this product...always on sale) - They do claim it fixes time zone issues in the sim.

 

Maybe the crashes could stop with this tool's bgl. 

Edited by Skywolf

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3 minutes ago, Skywolf said:

Maybe the crashes could stop with this tool's bgl. 

I don't use it and I don't have the crashes.  

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4 hours ago, SteveW said:

I use IFPro to ascertain the root causes of CTDs and problem addons.

IFPro?  (a Google search yielded pages and pages of nonsense)

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3 hours ago, downscc said:

Nope, that was an early hypothesis but never born out as possibly true.  Pretty much ruled out because it happens with or without time zone fixer, which completely replaces the timezone bgl data.

I don't see that as ruling timezone issues out...it might rule out bad data around the problem locations defined in the timezone definition bgl, but it doesn't necessarily address process/algorithm issues.  I do still wonder if crossing a TZ boundary that moves the date back (in either/both of UTC or local time) might cause some sort of logic fault, as a programmer might have assumed that date always moves forward.  At any rate, a corrected TZ definition bgl would not necessarily alter that sort of behavior (if it existed).

Regards

 

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11 minutes ago, w6kd said:

IFPro?  (a Google search yielded pages and pages of nonsense)

Ideal Flight Bob. Steve is the Developer.

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Just now, ZKOKQ said:

Ideal Flight Bob. Steve is the Developer.

Ah so.  ranksarot

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Bob,

I'd be glad to help if I could, but I do not have the problem.  I've gone back and flown routes where people have had crashes and my machine goes through these areas without any problem.  I circle the globe a couple of times a week one week going east to west and the next west to east and almost always in the northern hemisphere.  Dan and I have similar machines and we both are pretty much PMDG exclusively.  One thing about my system is I only use a few select scenery/utility vendors and FSUIPC. 

Some of the things I do is Stars is updated and I use aero.sors to update navaids and mag var.  I fly VATSIM on every flight and always at 1.0X and use Real Traffic. 

If I didn't know better I would think that this is a memory problem.  I still follow the old FSX philosophy of only having scenery I am currently using activated and don't have my setting as high as they can go.  I don't have any AI activated except for what VATSIM/Real Traffic generate.  

If I were having this CTD I would go back to a basic setup with one aircraft, no scenery or weather and fly the route I was having a problem with. If the flight passed, keep adding until it failed.  

 

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Another thing that might be related that does happen in my system on rare occasions is FPS fluctuation.  I will depart on a long flight and an hour or so into the flight my frame rate will drop to 5 or 6 and immediately go back to my set FPS.  I have flown for  8 hours with this issue and completed my flight. On landing the sim does seem to be jerky and the FPS drop a little longer, but never a crash.  My cure now is to save my flight and restart my sim.  It only takes a minute and every thing is back to normal.  My point in this is we keep looking at the problem down the road, when the problem with the CTD may be related to a scenery/utility loaded at the start.  Although this is 64-bit, a memory leak could eventually drag the system down.  Has anyone who is experiencing this crash using the memory utility that was used in FSX to monitor memory?  I will keep flying these routes for a while and see if I get the CTD.  I see lots of folks flying these same routes on VATSIM and they appear to be getting through without any problems.  

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Because of Virtuali the process of elimination for my sim removed GSX as a cause.

Next step to try from a post in the previous topic, FTX Global Vector Configuration Tool these airports I disabled

ZJT  (NDB)     Freq: 340.0  [Path: C:\Program Files\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4\ORBX\FTX_VECTOR\FTX_VECTOR_APT\scenery\APT_CYJT.bgl]
ZMN  (NDB)     Freq: 366.0  [Path: C:\Program Files\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4\ORBX\FTX_VECTOR\FTX_VECTOR_APT\scenery\APT_CYQM.bgl]
ZNF  (NDB)     Freq: 270.0  [Path: C:\Program Files\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4\ORBX\FTX_VECTOR\FTX_VECTOR_APT\scenery\APT_CYYT.bgl]
ZQM  (NDB)     Freq: 304.0  [Path: C:\Program Files\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4\ORBX\FTX_VECTOR\FTX_VECTOR_APT\scenery\APT_CYQM.bgl]
ZSM  (NDB)     Freq: 286.0  [Path: C:\Program Files\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4\ORBX\FTX_VECTOR\FTX_VECTOR_APT\scenery\APT_CYAM.bgl]
ZST  (NDB)     Freq: 397.0  [Path: C:\Program Files\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4\ORBX\FTX_VECTOR\FTX_VECTOR_APT\scenery\APT_CYSJ.bgl]
ZXJ  (NDB)     Freq: 246.0  [Path: C:\Program Files\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4\ORBX\FTX_VECTOR\FTX_VECTOR_APT\scenery\APT_CYXJ.bgl]
ZXY  (NDB)     Freq: 353.0  [Path: C:\Program Files\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4\ORBX\FTX_VECTOR\FTX_VECTOR_APT\scenery\APT_CYXY.bgl]
ZYB  (NDB)     Freq: 404.0  [Path: C:\Program Files\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4\ORBX\FTX_VECTOR\FTX_VECTOR_APT\scenery\APT_CYYB.bgl]
ZYT  (NDB)     Freq: 246.0  [Path: C:\Program Files\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4\ORBX\FTX_VECTOR\FTX_VECTOR_APT\scenery\APT_CYYT.bgl]
ZZD  (NDB)     Freq: 308.0  [Path: C:\Program Files\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4\ORBX\FTX_VECTOR\FTX_VECTOR_APT\scenery\APT_CYEG.bgl]

Flying next weekend same route will test.

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