Alistair Logie

Recommendation on a non study-level Boeing for P3dv4?

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Apologies if this is the inappropriate forum for a question like this.

I'm looking for a good looking Boeing that isn't study level and that won't be too hard on my system (Sandybridge (I think) Core i5 oc'd to 4GHz, GTX 1050Ti, 16GB RAM, SSD for OS and P3d, Windows 10 x64). Something around the complexity level of the Aerosoft A318/319 Pro would probably be a good fit. 

I'm thinking 737, but would be happy to consider any 7x7 if you think it offers a good combination of performance/complexity/looks.

I'd prefer something with a relatively modern cockpit, rather than all steam gauges.

Thanks,

Alistair

 

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Posted (edited)

Captain Sim's P3Dv4 exclusive 757 seems to have a lot of positive feedback, probably borderline study level. But I suspect it will be quite heavy on the system, only having a GTX1050Ti is quite a limitation.

Edited by ckyliu

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First off the 'study level' thing really gets on my nerves to be quite honest. Whoever came up with that phrase should be taken out back and dealt with......:))

If it has to be a Boeing......

QW 787?

TfDi 717?

Ifly737?

To be honest I don't have any of them so I can't comment on performance. QW used to be focused on 'normal procedures' ops so I don't know how they are on the new QW787. I heard its a big step up product wise for them.

 

 

 

 

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Just now, ckyliu said:

Captain Sim's P3Dv4 exclusive 757 seems to have a lot of positive feedback

Thats a good call too

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Most mentioned are about the same.  Pricewise the Ifly 737 from Flight1 is a very good aircraft at a fair price.  I do not recommend the Captain Sim 757 as I own it but...

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Posted (edited)

The term 'study level' is a bit like 'how long is a piece of string', but rather than debating what is or is not 'study level', let's go with what fits the OP's main criteria: not too hard on the system, preferably a glass cockpit, and not requiring lengthy study in order to operate.

There's a clear choice here, and that's the iFly Boeing 737 NG. Although the simulation detail on the iFly is such that it can certainly be regarded as 'study level' in that it does simulate most of the systems of the real aeroplane, the 737 itself is an easy airliner to learn. The iFly version makes some choices which pip the PMDG 737 (it's nearest rival flight sim offering) to make it a better choice in this instance. Graphically, it's not quite as over the top as the PMDG offering, i.e. the fuselage uses textures rather than polygons to depict the cabin, the cockpit textures are a bit lower res, and the HGS is not collimated. None of which means it looks bad, just not quite as flashy as the PMDG bird and as a result, it runs a lot better on even modest PC systems. But even if you have a fast and fancy PC, that is still a plus point, as its low system overhead leaves room to run fancy sceneries and such, or to crank those graphic option sliders over to the right and tick a few more of the visual whistle and bell options without worrying about FPS.

But why the 737? Why not the 747 or the 757, 767, 777, or even the 787.... Well, the 737 NG is what might be regarded as the classic 'learner' airliner. Its FMC is very intuitive, as is its MCP and EFIS. It is easy to fly manually or simple and intuitive to control with MCP speed, altitude and heading controls if you want the autopilot to handle things. When you are familiar with its basic functions, it has LNAV and VNAV to allow you to fly it in a sophisticated manner via the FMC too. Unlike the rival Airbus A318, A319, A320 and A321, there are no complex and confusing modes on a B737's MCP, i.e. all of the autopilot controls pretty much do what their labels say they do, there are no confusing FBW modes and the autothrottle is simple to understand and unlike with an Airbus, provides clear visual feedback as to what it is doing. The radio systems are basic and functional and visually very clear, being not a million miles away from what is found in a Cessna, so most pilots already know exactly how to operate many of the 737's systems quite intuitively. 

Being literally the most popular airliner ever built - over 10,000 of them constructed to date and making up over a quarter of the entire world's commercial airliner fleet - there is no shortage of learning material available for the 737, in all kinds of forms from youtube videos to books, websites and such, this means that if study is not necessarily your thing, learning to operate the 737 is probably about as accessible and easy a task as learning any airliner could ever be.

As for the product itself, the iFly Boeing 737 represents extremely good value for money and is an excellent choice for a flight simmer. For 60 quid (79.95 USD), you get nine variants of the aeroplane (i.e. considerably less than a tenner for each variant), so that's pretty much every 737 NG you could wish for with the exception of the military Poseidon variant. There are many selectable choices for winglets, engines and avionics fits if one wishes to simulate a particular airline's options and there is a simple yet effective configuration tool. Being that you get everything from the diminutive 600 variant suited to short range fast turnarounds (we spin those from arrival to departure in 25 minutes in real life) to the much larger 900ER variant, which comes close to rivaling the 757's capacity, you've got a set of airliners which share cockpit commonality, but which are suited to all kinds of different flights, from short hops, to quite lengthy trips.

Last but not least, Flight1 (the place which sells it) has a returns policy whereby if it doesn't float your boat for whatever reason, you can return it for a refund, so you've quite literally got nothing to lose in giving it a whirl and your purchases remain freely downloadable and instalable for years, so there's no worries about losing the installation files either.

I have the iFly 737 NG, the PMDG one too, as well as the Ariane one, but there's a good reason why I choose to use the iFly one the most and that's because when everything is taken into account, it is the best of the bunch.

Edited by Chock
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Thanks everyone for the responses. Great stuff.

I wasn't aware of Flight1's return policy. That's pretty unusual for software, isn't it? 

That might nudge me in the direction of the iFly 737 NG.

 

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It's a great plane - great value for money. 

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QW787 is also with F1 so same thing applies.

7 minutes ago, Alistair Logie said:

Thanks everyone for the responses. Great stuff.

I wasn't aware of Flight1's return policy. That's pretty unusual for software, isn't it? 

That might nudge me in the direction of the iFly 737 NG.

 

 

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The TFDi Design B717 has come a long way and with the recent update it's pretty darned nice.  With the recent update, I can feel better about recommending it.  Also, the 717 is highly automated and thus far easier to learn and fly that some other aircraft.

It also has some extra features such as Shared Cockpit, so if you can find someone to fly with they can help you learn the aircraft a lot faster!  I recommend trying the guys at: https://www.facebook.com/groups/multicrew717/

There are things at work in the development side of flight sim with Shared Cockpit which are really going to surprise and impress a lot of people!  I can't say anything more on this, but will share more when I can.

Best wishes.

 

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I think generally instead of specifying “study level” or not, it would be more helpful to know what a person wants or doesn’t want out of an addon.  Is it a time thing, ie is a person looking for an addon they can use Ctrl-e to start the engines?

If you were to compare the captainsim 757 and the PMDG NGX, while they are in different categories in terms of level of detail, what’s going on under the hood to simulate the aircraft, availability of failures etc, starting and operating either aircraft under normal circumstances is a similar workload.  So what is it that someone is looking to get /not get out of an addon?

I make this comment generally and not specifically to this thread or poster.

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I think it was Pete aka frugal that came up with “ study level”

says it all really !

Back on topic, I bought the iFly NG because it came out before the PMDG.

IMO not only do I think it’s a better version it’s also very easy to learn and is still very popular and finding YouTube and live streaming on twitch still use the PMDG. It’s the only aircraft at the moment that I will fly when not the FSL A319.

Its old but probably a true classic and is also very FPS friendly.

You really cannot go wrong with it. Sorry Alan I think the PMDG is the only NG to own if you just want one and I see no reason to own any other. Brave of you to mention Ariane. Lol

 

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Some clarification of the "level of difficulty" for the aircraft I'm looking for...

I'm thinking of something where I have a chance of memorizing some of the standard procedures rather than having to consult the manual every time. I don't need the Ctrl-E option, but I also don't want to spend more time on the ground than I do in the air trying to turn the damn thing on! 🙂

That's pretty vague, but hopefully it helps a bit.

Alistair

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Posted (edited)

Well am sure the iFly has the same option but in the PMDG you can have it ready to taxi as your default state, so all you have to do is program your FMC.

5 mins and your taxing. 

Edited by Nyxx

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Hello all,

I am another very, very happy owner/operator of the iFly 737. Further, I am an aged owner of a slightly feeble mind but I  really had few difficuties learning the procedures involved with this aircraft.  I have to admit my method was to actually write down an abreviated version of the manual and follow that each and every time until I got it down pat.  This method does not teach you the "why" you are doing the the things involved in all aspects of operation but, over a relatively short period of time you learn them in a "parrot" fashion. The aircraft is also wonderful to hand fly which I find a handy bonus.

The main thing that I found confusing was the fact, that after I actually learnt the procedures etc for flying this aircraft following the iFly manual, I started watching youtubers doing "cold and dark starts" etc and I could not really follow what they were doing precisely because they did NOT follow the iFly manual procedures. Now I fully realize that all airlines have their own code of practices, procedures and policies, but some of these youtubers were just jumping all over the place, and some  actually admitted that they were learners (to a point) as well .The point I am making here is that this just adds to the confusion, and depending on your level of committment to this (and other aircraft too, of course) and I would advocate that you pick one method of learning until you are thoroughly familiar with what you are doing. I know it would be great to also understand the "why" of what you are doing during each and every part of the procedures, but in my view, that is not the" be all and end all" of flight simming. 

As previously stated, iFly is a great starting point and I found that repetition was the key for me and a fairly short process. There is also a huge amount of repaints available on the Flight1 site.

Good luck with your choice.

Regards

Tony

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7 hours ago, djbully said:

I don't have these ones, but apparently they are supposed to be decent. I don't know if anyone else who has used it can comment? 

 

http://www.flight1.com/products.asp?search=true&txtsearch=ifly744

http://www.flight1.com/products.asp?product=ifly737

I'm still trying to decide myself whether to get PMDG or this ones! 

 

No both iFly products have just as much system depth as PMDG aircraft. Just less bells and whistles.

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For some reason PMDG are sticking with their nav coding. I am not sure about the PMDG 747 but all the other PMDG tubeliners cannot fly an RNAV RNP approach properly because they do not have an RF (radius to fix) leg type coding. This is a common place approach (and departure) these days.  The iFly737 flies them well.
Both products are very good but on balance I prefer the iFly mainly because there are 9 variants, it flies well, Better performance on my PC and flight 1 is still supporting and upgrading it.
A very good tutorial as well to get you going.

However you wont be disappointed with either choice.

 

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I’m actually curious, and sorry if this is slightly hijacking the original topic. However, with mention of iFly I was wondering if anybody knows what’s up with a cargo version of the iFly 747? I’d be interested in buying it, but would only do so if there was a cargo version of it. It appears the PMDG is the more popular of the bunch but it is very expensive...

which, mind you, is something else to consider. I do own only the PMDG 737 and the 600/700 extension and love it - fly it very often. But, it cost me over 100$ which is a lot of money. The iFly is definitely cheaper!

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10 minutes ago, Benjamin J said:

I’m actually curious, and sorry if this is slightly hijacking the original topic. However, with mention of iFly I was wondering if anybody knows what’s up with a cargo version of the iFly 747? I’d be interested in buying it, but would only do so if there was a cargo version of it. It appears the PMDG is the more popular of the bunch but it is very expensive...

which, mind you, is something else to consider. I do own only the PMDG 737 and the 600/700 extension and love it - fly it very often. But, it cost me over 100$ which is a lot of money. The iFly is definitely cheaper!

The iFly 747-400F will not happen.  As I understand it a commerical entity has been paying for further development of the 737 and all the manpower is into that. Eventually the 747-8 will be released.

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9 hours ago, Nyxx said:

I think it was Pete aka frugal that came up with “ study level”

Absolutely not.  This term was bandied around in the 90s when Jane's simulations were prevalent.

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20 hours ago, GHarrall said:

First off the 'study level' thing really gets on my nerves to be quite honest. Whoever came up with that phrase should be taken out back and dealt with......:))

If it has to be a Boeing......

QW 787?

TfDi 717?

Ifly737?

To be honest I don't have any of them so I can't comment on performance. QW used to be focused on 'normal procedures' ops so I don't know how they are on the new QW787. I heard its a big step up product wise for them.

 

 

 

 

Why does the mention of study level gets on your nerves? To me, it just means that some of us like to experience in some detail what the consequences are of manipulating a FMC and all the onboard systems. That is what simulating can be about. How would you describe Pmdg, Flslabs, leonardo maddog, Majestic dash8 en others? Highly detailed? that's ok with me. 

The poster is looking for an aircraft with no so many system details. What is so ennerving about that? To each its own.

Best regards,

Jos

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Been flying the PMDG 737 for years, with no issues at all, on a i5 3.2 Ghz CPU. To me it is still the gold standard of Boeing sim aircraft, and my cost per flight has to be  infinitesimal. You can make it as easy to fly as you want, or fly it like the real thing. Add in FS 2 Crew, some of the NGX  immersion add ons  and you step it up another few notches. The Q400 and NGX are all that I fly now, and I have hangars full of aircraft that I don't even touch anymore. 

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