Bad crew experience with MCE support

[sanookBKK 6]

As a first time user, I struggled trying to understand how FSL A320 work with MCE (trial version) on PD3V4

So i sent an email to support asking if they had any step by step tutorial for FSL A320 + MCE
as the DOC folders is full of unsorted documents mixed with users documents so I didn't know where to start
But it seems I made a mistake, like a crime of lese majeste, in mentioning FS2Crew, I said that i am still not decided
if I go for FSL A320 + MCE or Aerosoft pro + FS2Crew.
Big Mistake !

My question was barely answered speaking about "voxscript", which i don't know what it is and how it works.
but 80% of the email was a sales speech telling me the differences between FS2Crew and MCE and how MCE
was much better and that it supported QW787 and soon TDFI 717, and that MCE works from FS9 to P3Dv4 And from Window XP to Windows 10
and it has integration with GSX and AES etc etc.!!!

Pfff ok I know that, I just want to know how I fly the FSL A320 with an MCE Co-pilot...

So ok i decided to dig further with the few info I got in the answer email but MCE told me that my trial period is over !
I installed MCE less than 24 hours before with a few restart of the sim but it kicked me out when it said
I have 3 days and 30 tries.....

Grr , i resent an email to support telling them "I thank you for your fast answer etc"
but it seems that it will be difficult for me to spend 60€ on MCE as I could not try it more as the trial expired
before when it was supposed too and telling them they should make and effort on tutorial for first time users
and thank you for the sells speech but please answer my technical questions...

The answer was

"Since you already made your mind up about which product is the best for you before you wrote your first e-mail, will leave it at that.
You could have easily downloaded the MCE for Aerosoft package which is unlocked and for use in FSX or P3D V3.
We make crew simulation for real pilots.
And I can tell you, these won’t be happy with instructions such as “don’t say this until you’ve done that”, “don’t ask for that other bit until you are in the correct flight phase”.
The competition needs a step by step manual, because otherwise you wouldn’t have a clue where to start, with co-pilot only accepting the exact sentence written in manual and only allowed to speak at the “right time”.
If it’s your thing, good for you."
and some more blah blah on how MCE is better than the competition.
Again the same anti FS2Crew blah blah

Hey guy ?!!! Wake up ! I am asking about MCE with FSL A320 on P3Dv4 and I am answered:
"You could have easily downloaded the MCE for Aerosoft package which is unlocked and for use in FSX or P3D V3."

1- I dont have FSX nor P3Dv3
2- How should I know how and where to download that
3- Why should have done that as this is not what I want !!!!!
4- Also MCE co-pilot is maybe very clever and we don't need to say an exact sentence but

in my trial, many times the co-pilot did not do what i said or did not understand some simple words as "OFF" so that' why i ask for help to try
to understand what i am doing wrong

Well this is how my Multi Crew Experience ended this morning.

Maybe I should have asked on the forum in the first place as it seems people are more cool here.

By the way, a piece of advice : Never mention FS2Crew when contacting MCE support as it seems it makes them very upset 😉

 

[FS++ 707]

On ‎8‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 2:10 PM, sanookBKK said:

As a first time user, I struggled trying to understand how FSL A320 work with MCE (trial version) on PD3V4

So i sent an email to support asking if they had any step by step tutorial for FSL A320 + MCE
as the DOC folders is full of unsorted documents mixed with users documents so I didn't know where to start
But it seems I made a mistake, like a crime of lese majeste, in mentioning FS2Crew, I said that i am still not decided
if I go for FSL A320 + MCE or Aerosoft pro + FS2Crew.
Big Mistake !

My question was barely answered speaking about "voxscript", which i don't know what it is and how it works.
but 80% of the email was a sales speech telling me the differences between FS2Crew and MCE and how MCE
was much better and that it supported QW787 and soon TDFI 717, and that MCE works from FS9 to P3Dv4 And from Window XP to Windows 10
and it has integration with GSX and AES etc etc.!!!

Pfff ok I know that, I just want to know how I fly the FSL A320 with an MCE Co-pilot...

So ok i decided to dig further with the few info I got in the answer email but MCE told me that my trial period is over !
I installed MCE less than 24 hours before with a few restart of the sim but it kicked me out when it said
I have 3 days and 30 tries.....

Grr , i resent an email to support telling them "I thank you for your fast answer etc"
but it seems that it will be difficult for me to spend 60€ on MCE as I could not try it more as the trial expired
before when it was supposed too and telling them they should make and effort on tutorial for first time users
and thank you for the sells speech but please answer my technical questions...

The answer was

"Since you already made your mind up about which product is the best for you before you wrote your first e-mail, will leave it at that.
You could have easily downloaded the MCE for Aerosoft package which is unlocked and for use in FSX or P3D V3.
We make crew simulation for real pilots.
And I can tell you, these won’t be happy with instructions such as “don’t say this until you’ve done that”, “don’t ask for that other bit until you are in the correct flight phase”.
The competition needs a step by step manual, because otherwise you wouldn’t have a clue where to start, with co-pilot only accepting the exact sentence written in manual and only allowed to speak at the “right time”.
If it’s your thing, good for you."
and some more blah blah on how MCE is better than the competition.
Again the same anti FS2Crew blah blah

Hey guy ?!!! Wake up ! I am asking about MCE with FSL A320 on P3Dv4 and I am answered:
"You could have easily downloaded the MCE for Aerosoft package which is unlocked and for use in FSX or P3D V3."

1- I dont have FSX nor P3Dv3
2- How should I know how and where to download that
3- Why should have done that as this is not what I want !!!!!
4- Also MCE co-pilot is maybe very clever and we don't need to say an exact sentence but

in my trial, many times the co-pilot did not do what i said or did not understand some simple words as "OFF" so that' why i ask for help to try
to understand what i am doing wrong

Well this is how my Multi Crew Experience ended this morning.

Maybe I should have asked on the forum in the first place as it seems people are more cool here.

By the way, a piece of advice : Never mention FS2Crew when contacting MCE support as it seems it makes them very upset 😉

 

First, to show you how immature your last statement is, not only do I ask the mods NOT to delete this post, but also post a link to Fs2crew so that your mate may buy you a drink at the local Starbucks:

https://www.avsim.com/forums/forum/212-fs2crew-support-forum/

Now, let me think 

In SanookBKK, there is BKK (Bangkok)

Isn't that where your guru lives 

By the way, you may want to confirm with Avsim, I don't recall a single post being deleted on this MCE forum, even when it wasn't official.

For completeness, and since you posted your exchange with Ben on the support e-mail, spicing it with "Blah Blah" as you saw fit, I am going to post the entire exchange (can provide the genuine copy to Avsim if required), including your last post where you hoped we go out of business (Nope, not happening any time soon).

And it's not because we think our software is perfect. Why would we then update it every month. It's precisely because it will never be. But we strive for perfection, and don't waste our time on creating "hype", with "second comings", "raffles" and what not to drum up sales. We spend our time where it matters.

Understanding how devs build aircraft, so we can interface any, with or without SDK. And without sending our cronies to bully aircraft makers with statements like "I will not buy this aircraft until the devs give SDK to Bryan so he can work his magic".

A quick look at the forum would have shown you that we are definitely looking for as much feedback as possible.

We also have a fully working Demo, which you can screw up immediately if you set the computer time to an earlier time.

The good thing when you have a Demo (and I strongly recommend it to all FS Devs), is that you don't need to create a sect and drum up sales by having your disciples make noises on various forums. You would be in a position where you are totally at the mercy of reviewers and "image management".

Here is one who tried to destroy us years ago.

https://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/content.php?15155-Review-Multi-Crew-Experience

And here is the exact replica of the e-mail exchange. Read it bottom up.

Anyone is entitled to his opinion.

******** E-mail exchange

Ben,

 

If you don' t want to listen to user feedback about your product then good for you.

You are convinced that MCE is perfect in all aspects then there is nothing i can do about it.

If i struggled using it as a first time user, it is not to bother you , but i suppose I must be too stupid for

this excellent, intuitive piece of software. (And the friend ,real life A320 Captain, who tried it with me is probably a retard too, as he had the same feeling than me)

 

"Since you already made your mind up about which product is the best for you before you wrote your first e-mail, will leave it at that."

 

If that was my state of mind I would not loose time writing email to your support.

I was ready to dig more after your answer this morning but it is YOUR HIGHNESS PERFECT SOFTWARE which kicked me out of the loop

after less than 24 hours trial when it says 3 days or 30 tries trial.

 

Well if i was answering my customers the way you do, I would be out of business long time ago.

 

Cheers

 

Yann

 

 

---

De : Multi Crew Support <support@multicrewxp.com>
Envoyé : samedi 4 août 2018 16:12
À : 'Yann M'
Objet : RE: Any tutorial to fly the FSLabs A320 ?

 

Since you already made your mind up about which product is the best for you before you wrote your first e-mail, will leave it at that.

 

You could have easily downloaded the MCE for Aerosoft package which is unlocked and for use in FSX or P3D V3.

 

We make crew simulation for real pilots.

 

And I can tell you, these won’t be happy with instructions such as “don’t say this until you’ve done that”, “don’t ask for that other bit until you are in the correct flight phase”.

 

The competition needs a step by step manual, because otherwise you wouldn’t have a clue where to start, with co-pilot only accepting the exact sentence written in manual and only allowed to speak at the “right time”.

 

If it’s your thing, good for you.

 

We don’t expect our users to read documentation. This is “speech recognition” product.

As such, it’s our duty to work out all the possible verbiage variations the user is likely going to come up with.

 

So, rather than tell user, say “Set speed 2 5 0”, we just make sure the software can cope with any of these

 

Set speed two five zero

Set speed two fifty

Select speed two five oh

Make speed two fifty

Adjust speed two five zero

Two fifty knots on the airspeed

Two five zero on the speed bug

Etc…

Etc…

At least 30 variations for just this item.

 

For us, it’s not about selling as much as possible.

 

We are building something that people will use for years to come, and earn a living in the process.

 

We sell enough of it to resist turning it into a money grabbing scheme.

 

We even resisted an offer from Steam, to sell it through their platform.

 

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ days afiledetails/?id=673377470

Steam Greenlight :: Multi Crew Experience Lite Edition steamcommunity.com This game has been Greenlit by the Community! The community has shown their interest in this game. Valve has reached out to this developer to start moving things toward release on Steam.

 

 

 

Oh, and by the way, we are also present in X-Plane since 2015.

 

That’s all I can say.

 

Regards,

 

Ben

The FS++ team

 

 

 

From: Yann M
Sent: 03 August 2018 21:44
To: support@multicrewxp.com
Subject: Any tutorial to fly the FSLabs A320 ?

 

Hello,

 

I tried MCE (trial version) with FSlabs A320 on p3dv4.3

 

It was very complicated as i was not sure what to tell the F/O.

I found the checklist but nothing about the flow, what i can say to the FO at different part of the flight

Also it seems that the FSlabs  + MCE which came with FSlabs was of different and of lesser quality than the one on your website.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=674&v=xCPDbufeSdc

 

Do you have a step by step tutorial for MCE + FSLabs.

 

My try today was quite tricky and i found MCE very complicated to use with no clear manual to help. The only manual i found in the DOC folder

is very old not detailed and refere to FS9 and even windows XP !

 

I have a choice to make but I think I will go for Aerosoft A320 Pro + FS2crew even if the FSLabs A320 is better.

Don't want to spend hours of trial and errors to understand MCE...

 

Hope to get a quick answer as my free trial expire in 2 days and i am really not yet ready to spend 60€ for MCE

 

Regards.

 

Yann

 

Edited August 5, 2018 by alpha117

[FS++ 707]

3 hours ago, sanookBKK said:

Gerald,

Yes thanks for not deleting my post, that's indeed a good thing but frankly I was not expecting it to be deleted
as there is nothing offensive,and if I wanted to harm your business I would post on differents forum spitting on MCE
and not here.
It was just my experience as a first time user and maybe suggesting there is a way to improve your product
especially on the documentation side. You know your product so well that you might not be able anymore to
see it with a first time user eye.

You posted our exchange email on a public forum wich i have no problem with but

1- You didn' hide my name and email which is a breach of confidentiality and a privacy violation
   totally forbidden under the new General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) (EU) 2016/679
   so i am requiring you to mask these info ASAP

2- I didn't mention Ben personally but "support"
3- you forgot the first answer (on purpose?) that Ben made to me

Let's be clear point by point as it seems we didn't start on good bases either with Ben or you.

I am in no way affiliated with FS2Crew except being a long time quite satisfied customer and
unlike you i think there is enough room for both products as there are enough differences between them.
Oh and by the way you can check FS2Crew forum to see that i am not always very cool with Bryan
when i don't like something in his product or don't agree with his answer.

 

Sorry, Don't understand what that mean

 

It was just to make a long story short and again you did the same as you didn't post Ben first answer to me where he spend
80 % of it telling me how MCE was great instead just clearly answering my questions.

 

Fully working ? hum hum, I didn't need to set the comp time to an earlier time for it to screw up
as it stopped working less than 24 hours after install and much less than 30 tries when it is stated that the demo
should work for 3 days or 30 tries.

 

This one really shows the paranoid state of mind in the MCE team.
Read again, i never said
" I hope you guys to get out of business"
I said :
"Well if i was answering my customers the way you do, I would be out of business long time ago."

Wich is true. When I have an unhappy customer or criticizing my service,
unlike you i don't try to convince him that he is wrong and that my product is perfect
I listen to him and try to answer his needs to make him happy. It works 95% of the time.
And yes, if i didn't do that I would be out of business.
And if one of my staff or my partner was answering customers the same way I was answered
I would tell him not to do that and no, I would not tell the customer how stupid he was and how
my staff was good.

 

BTW Let's get to the root of our quarrel :

Maybe I have been a bit harsh on my first email as it seems you are quite sensitive
I should not have said:

"I have a choice to make but I think I will go for Aerosoft A320 Pro + FS2crew even if the FSLabs A320 is better.
Don't want to spend hours of trial and errors to understand MCE..."

I should have said:

"I hesitate between FSL + MCE and Aerosoft Pro + FS2crew.
You product looks quite complicate to me, do you have any tutorial ?"

My bad, it was because I was a bit upset after struggling to achieve what is on this video on your website and
the difference with my experience with MCE where the flow , answers and MCE behaviour were very different
or not working at all, and not finding any docs where i could find the answers.
https://youtu.be/xCPDbufeSdc

But the facts are still here :

I might be dumb but all elaborated products i purchased like FSUIPC, ADE (free), PMDG 777 737,Aerosoft A320, QW787 etc
comes with clear docs and I was able to use it without support help, at least for basic use.

Your product lacks of understandable and clear documentation
Your doc folder is full of unsorted documents from various origins that might be useful
when you masters MCE but are very confusing for a first time user.

- Do you have a doc or tutorial for using Voxscript and creating your own flows ?

  From Ben's answer to my email it seems that you just open voxscript and understands how to do.
  Well didn't have time to verify that as my trial terminated unexpectly.

- Do you have doc which explain how MCE to interact with GSX ?

  Tried to achieve that not to avail

- How do we hear the cabin crew, can we change cabin crew sets ?
  Didn't find any doc explaining that.

- What are the flow for a given aircraft and differents words combination we can use to make it works ?
  Again could not find a clear answer.
  Ben gave me an answer about that but again could not try it as my trial terminated unexpectedly.

- Do you have a place where users could exchange their created flows ?
  Could not find this in any doc or google search.Could be a nice thing no ?

If i am wrong please direct me to docs or links i might have missed.

So my experience was frustrating and this Trial not working as expected was even more
due to the fact that as a hard working person I don't have days in front of me for
trials and errors.

So again I might had a bit of an upset tone out of frustration in my first email,
but i was waiting for an answer like "take it easy, relax, here is how to do..."
But instead I got a kind of  "Don't you see our product is top notch you dumb FS2Crew lover?"

I think all this might be a misunderstanding and I am still interested in MCE...
And on the good side it seems that MCE team is quite pro-active at answering customers.

So are you ready to answer in a constructive way or will I again get a defensive answer like
if I was an FS2Crew troll trying to ruin your product ?

Cheers

 

I can no longer edit my own post.

May want to ask Alpha117 (forum mod) to mask e-mail address.

Documentation is accessible via the Windows Start menu Start->All Apps->Multi Crew Experience.

Some speech commands apply across all aircraft. they are grouped by "system". Example "Autopilot_commands". For cabin crew see "Cabin_Commands"

For GSX or AES read "GSX&AESDocument.pdf.

Things are moving so fast that I can tell you documentation will always be out of date. Because we constantly add verbiage variations, new ramp agents etc...

Other commands that are only enabled with specific aircraft are in separate documents

Yes, documentation is massive and a bit "ugly", because it was written over a decade. As are MCE videos. You won't find "doctored 2 minutes trailer videos" trying to sell you a dream. MCE videos are there for educational purposes.

Here is a video showing how to use Voxscript.

You can educate Fo to understand what you deems natural speech, creating custom commands that will get him/her to perform a chain of actions in the order and pace you specify

[media] 

 

You're right on one thing, when I did a copy and paste from webmail within your very latest reply, it didn't have the first reply from Ben.

Have dug up previous e-mails and now can post the initial exchange. Again to be read bottom up

****** Email

Thanks Ben for your quick answer,

 

At least MCE Support is pro-active.

Unfortunatly my trial version ended up this morning ("trial period is over") after less than 24 hours and of course much less than 30 tries,

so i can forget about MCE as I didn't have time to check if it will suit my needs or not.

 

If you want to sell more copies of MCE you really should do some work on the manuals,documentaions and make some step by step tutorials

either PDF or VDO for every parts of it.

 

I am not programmer but I have quite some experience as a computer user and a FS fan since fs5 and I am quite lost at understanding how

MCE works as a first time user. 

You answered quickly to my request but You spent 75% of your answer telling me how MCE is wonderful and how FS2crew is product limited.

I knew all these already and that why i wanted to give MCE a try, i don't need to hear a sales speech again but just answers to my questions.

 

The doc folder of MCE is a total mess with all kind of docs (some made by users) unsorted and it is quite hard to find what you need to start with.

Also some users probably made good flows for specific aircrafts and it seems that there is no place to find, exchange and download it.

For example Doing a google search for MCE FSLabs A320 flows brings nothing except a forum page where someone from MCE says again how this

is a fantastic tool. .

 

How to use MCE with GSX ? How to hear the cabin crew ? how to modify cabin crew ? etc etc found nothing about that, except a doc to use GSX made by

a user which is not really understandable if you don't know how MCE works.

 

Well it seems that MCE is a nice product but people just want to follow a tutorial to fly and not doing trial and errors

researchs to be able to use a software, Especially when the trial period ends much before than when it supposed to.

 

Best

 

Yann.

 

 

 

---

De : Multi Crew Support <support@multicrewxp.com>
Envoyé : samedi 4 août 2018 06:11
À : Yann M
Objet : Re: Any tutorial to fly the FSLabs A320 ?

 

Hello Yann.

I assume you downloaded trial version here:

http://www.multicrewxp.com/Downloads.html

Multi Crew Experience Website - Downloads www.multicrewxp.com Software add-on to Microsoft Flight Simulator X, FS2004. Amelioration du Simulateur de vol X. Vergrößerung der flugsimulator X. Annesso al simulatore di volo X. Ampliación del simulador de vuelo X.

 

Download, unzip and run "InstallMCE".

If Windows UAC is enabled, you must install to default C:\Program Files (x86)\Multi Crew Experience\ folder

Set "Prepar3D.exe" to run as administrator.

This should sort out any installation issues.

There is no separate MCE product that comes by default with FsLabs.

The Ultimate Edition currently supports 42 complex aircraft, including Aerosoft Airbus Professional.

Support for TFDi 717 will be added within 2 months.

Unlike Fs2crew which is a "scripted adventure", with you required to "play your role" at specific times, basically replacing a button press with a trigger sentence, MCE is a "completely interactive crew simulation".

You can start the flight with aircraft in any state, Fo will always be in synch with flight phase.

You can give direct commands to Fo to activate anything you want or use flows to get him to perform a chain of actions using a trigger command.

It's even possible to ask the Fo to do something while he's busy with a flow.

With Aerosoft A320 or FSL A320 loaded and MCE started, go to <Command> tab in MCE user interface and click <Voxscript> button.

In "Voxscript overview" panel, you should see a list of flows you can trigger via voice.

If you can't recall the exact phrasing, you could rename the flows, and the new name becomes the new trigger sentence.

Select one of the flows and click <Edit>

In "Voxscript Properties" panel, you can decide whether the flow is executed silently or have the Fo comment on anything he does (Verbose option enabled by default)

Click <Edit script commands> and you should see a list of actions the FO will be performing as part of the flow.

We give you the power to customize the flow to match any world airline SOPs.

No arguing on who does what. You decide on the task sharing as you see fit.

Simply remove any action from the flow that you want to handle yourself, or add other things for him to perform. No need to insert pauses lower than 3 seconds.

Same with checklist, you can load the exact checklist you ant to rehearse for your target airline.

We could have created 45 separate products out of this.

We decided to do the decent thing and have one single product support Prepar3D V4.3 all the way to FS9, from Windows 10 all the way to Windows XP, with 42 complex aircraft supported, 3 ATC systems, integration with GSX and AES.

It has taken 11+ years to build this.

We can't bring ourselves to make 45 "shallow products" at US 25 a pop and have our users perform more than 10 installations to cover their fleet.

We also support many aircraft that have no SDK, like QW 787, FSL A320.

Some people fail to see this.

For instance, people don't know that Aerosoft has licensed MCE for their A320 in FSX and P3D V3.

There are tons of documents accessible via he Windows menu Start->All Apps->Multi Crew Experience. You'll find links to many documents.

Eventually go to C:\Program Files (x86)\Multi Crew Experience\Docs\ folder

 

Regards,

 

Ben

The FS++ team

 

 

On 03 August 2018 at 21:44 Yann M <a******0@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hello,

 

I tried MCE (trial version) with FSlabs A320 on p3dv4.3

 

It was very complicated as i was not sure what to tell the F/O.

I found the checklist but nothing about the flow, what i can say to the FO at different part of the flight

Also it seems that the FSlabs  + MCE which came with FSlabs was of different and of lesser quality than the one on your website.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=674&v=xCPDbufeSdc

 

Do you have a step by step tutorial for MCE + FSLabs.

 

My try today was quite tricky and i found MCE very complicated to use with no clear manual to help. The only manual i found in the DOC folder

is very old not detailed and refere to FS9 and even windows XP !

 

I have a choice to make but I think I will go for Aerosoft A320 Pro + FS2crew even if the FSLabs A320 is better.

Don't want to spend hours of trial and errors to understand MCE...

 

Hope to get a quick answer as my free trial expire in 2 days and i am really not yet ready to spend 60€ for MCE

 

Regards.

 

Yann

 *************** End of e-0mail exchange
 

 

 

[sanookBKK 6]

Ok Gerald,

You know what ? I will purchase MCE  as I like the concept and it seems  you react

quite fast to customers.

Get ready to get newbie questions soon. Btw where is it better to ask when not understanding something ? here or email to Ben 🙄 ?

Also please contact the Forum mod to erase my email address as I don't want to be flooded with spam from web crawlers.

Cheers.

[alpha117 73]

If there are any relevant questions about MCE then please start a new thread, one topic per thread, easier to manage.

Do not post any emails that contain personal information without that persons knowledge.

I will delete posts that 'go off topic' or becomes personal. Public forums are not a place for this kind of exchange. 

 

Thanks

 

Edited August 5, 2018 by alpha117

[FS++ 707]

5 hours ago, sanookBKK said:

Ok Gerald,

You know what ? I will purchase MCE  as I like the concept and it seems  you react

quite fast to customers.

Get ready to get newbie questions soon. Btw where is it better to ask when not understanding something ? here or email to Ben 🙄 ?

Also please contact the Forum mod to erase my email address as I don't want to be flooded with spam from web crawlers.

Cheers.

I can confirm Yann has now joined the club.

So, let's welcome him.

Welcome aboard Yann.

The forum is the best place to request help. It saves email support regurgitating the same thing over and over regarding common issues.

As the mod suggested, best to start a thread for every issue you might have.

Feel free to report anything that requires attention.