who stole the plane

[IAhawkeyeDDS 158]

Poor journalism.... BS headline...

'Suicidal' airline employee plane theft started with flick of a switch, officials say

 

Suicidal' airline employee plane theft started with flick of a switch, officials say

 

 

[bgm1961 0]

 

This question may be getting a bit ahead of things right now, but I'm not looking forward to the spotlight which will shine upon this hobby once again, IF it's learned that he was a flight simmer, and had a model of the aircraft in his flight sim library.

IF that be the case - and given the inevitable discussion of how this incident could've turned out much worse regardless of motive - there will definitely be the questions concerning this hobby's role in enabling such activity. Yet so far in this thread, I haven't seen too much concern about this possible unwelcome attention/threat to the hobby. Is my concern off base?
 

[shivers9 1,174]

22 minutes ago, bgm1961 said:

 

This question may be getting a bit ahead of things right now, but I'm not looking forward to the spotlight which will shine upon this hobby once again, IF it's learned that he was a flight simmer, and had a model of the aircraft in his flight sim library.

IF that be the case - and given the inevitable discussion of how this incident could've turned out much worse regardless of motive - there will definitely be the questions concerning this hobby's role in enabling such activity. Yet so far in this thread, I haven't seen too much concern about this possible unwelcome attention/threat to the hobby. Is my concern off base?
 

Many here have either Civil or Military flight experience or similar training. We have been trained to only worry about the things we can control. Nothing we can do will effect the outcome so no need to be concerned. It is what it is.

[Paraffin 2,197]

The most recent link to the flight sim hobby I can recall, is what may have been a practice run by the captain of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 on his home flight sim, to avoid detection and ditch the plane. It's unconfirmed that this is what happened, but the hobby flight sim link is there. There haven't been any repercussions from that, so  I doubt it will make any difference if this guy had any home sim practice before stealing the plane. 

More broadly, there have been years of discussion about the effects of videogames in general, where people can practice shooting and vehicular homicide (GTA, etc.), with no real negative impact on the market.

Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but I think people are smart enough not to place blame on games and simulations for people's actions in the real world. It may even function as an escape valve for some people.

[z06z33 763]

A very sad situation,at least he didn’t want to take anyone else with him. As for his flying skills a roll isn’t very hard and it wasn’t executed very well but, he didn’t tear the wings off recovering from the dive which makes me think he understood you can tear the wings off. As for getting it started google how to start dash 8 and chances are there is a video he could have followed along with... Anyway I won’t resort to name calling as this man was clearly suffering from some issues and felt this was his only way out. At least he didn’t hurt anyone else or seem to have that intent. May he find peace in the afterlife.

[JRBarrett 3,038]

1 hour ago, Orlaam said:

Yeah that's the guy.  He must have wanted to die.  No other reason to explain it.  I know that my dad was stationed there during those years.  I was 25 then but don't really recall a story about it.  There have been many who have taken aircraft without permission, or hijacked, like disgruntled FedEx employee who attempted to take over a DC-10.  Frank Eugene Corder stole a Cessna 150 and tried crashing into the WH in 9/12/1994 (stolen on 9/11! 😮).  Brian Joseph Hedglin, a commercial pilot who attempted to steal a CRJ200 in 2012.  There are dozens of stories like this.  I know of some I can't even find.  One guy buzzed a girl's house whom he was sleeping with, however, she called off the affair (she was married) and he flew into the ground.  People just don't realize the fact that it happens.  It's typically someone with some training, albeit limited, but a few have occurred with people like this guy.

There was one case where a military mechanic (an aircraft crew chief I believe), took a jet fighter for a joyride, and actually got it back on the ground in one piece. He had the advantage of having thorough systems knowledge, and had even gotten some prior stick time riding in the back seat on maintenance test flights. I THINK it was a Navy fighter in Southern California, but I could be wrong. It was many years ago.

[HiFlyer 9,343]

Excitable gurl!

 

[John_Cillis 2,406]

My head is still spinning thinking about this, and thinking how it has not happened until now.  Sad this man had a suicide wish but at least he did not want to hurt others, it seems that way from his ATC contacts, he obviously feared trying to land.  When I took flight instruction I found takeoffs much easier than landing, as well as stalls and keeping the aircraft airborne, even though my Allegro trainer was a bit touchy compared to other aircraft I later tried.  But to imagine him looping the Dash, though it looked more like a roll.  I remember I could loop and roll my two axis (elevator and rudder) RC motor glider, but that was due to the pronounced dihedral on the wings which made turns immediate even when light rudder was applied.   With a simulator I know he could have learned how to take off the aircraft, but it seems he did not know the instruments and cockpit drill well if he did not know how the pressurization worked.  The F15's responded with restraint not shooting him down.  I guess he knew his life was over the minute he stole the aircraft.  What drives people to do such desperate things, maybe his financial situation, ground crew does not make that much money, and they have to know a lot.  Lucky that no other lives were lost, but one must worry about copycats now seeking the media attention.

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

I think once he got it going he wasn't going back, he was just teasing ATC. Even if he tried landing and failed but survived with major injuries then he is facing prison with compromised health, even walking away from it prison in the USA is no fun.....He was weighing his options and he wasn't coming back.

I feel for his family because suicide effects the ones you leave behind, my brother killed himself 3 years ago now and for family it leaves a toll.

Edited August 11, 2018 by Matthew Kane

[SpiritFlyer 987]

20 minutes ago, Matthew Kane said:

I feel for his family because suicide effects the ones you leave behind, my brother killed himself 3 years ago now and for family it leaves a toll.

Matthew,

I can only imagine what that must be like. My sincere condolences for the loss of your brother and for all others who grieve such tragedy.

Spirit Flyer

Stephen

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

1 hour ago, SpiritFlyer said:

Matthew,

I can only imagine what that must be like. My sincere condolences for the loss of your brother and for all others who grieve such tragedy.

Spirit Flyer

Stephen

Thanks Stephen,

One thing I learned from that time is with every sunset you know that the ones you lost are here with you, sunsets are great reminders of that. When I've seen these clips of this incident what I saw was a magnificent sunset over Puget Sound, so if it is any consolation to his family his final moments were spent dancing in the skies over the most beautiful sunset, hopefully they can find peace in that too. 

Edited August 12, 2018 by Matthew Kane

[jon b 2,041]

I’m having a problem accepting that these manoeuvres could have been flown by someone without some prior experience.

Commercial aircraft are heavy on the controls and are designed to be inherently stable, these manoeuvres would be uncomfortable ,high G, and require a lot of control force with the aircraft being well out of trim.

Anyone who flies commercial aircraft for real will have flown jet upset / outside envelope manoeuvres in the sim and know that these things aren’t that east to throw around.The level out just above the water is either very lucky or skilled, not sure which at this stage.

[Paraffin 2,197]

26 minutes ago, jon b said:

Anyone who flies commercial aircraft for real will have flown jet upset / outside envelope manoeuvres in the sim and know that these things aren’t that east to throw around.The level out just above the water is either very lucky or skilled, not sure which at this stage.

Okay, but again... no pax, no baggage, light on fuel. If you've flown a Q400 in the sim, you've probably never flown it unloaded in this configuration. 

[JRMurray 214]

A very sad, very public event. My condolences to his wife and family, and my best wishes to the ATC personnel and pilots who calmly tried to help out.

I live in Greater Vancouver, only about 100 or so miles (160 kilometres) north of Seattle, so I know Sea-Tac and the area fairly well, as I've flown IRL into and out of KSEA many times--and of course, the Pacific Northwest is one of my favourite areas in which to sim.

On another note, I'm curious about two comments he made. One concerned his vomiting. IIRC, at one point, he responded to ATC by telling them that he had just thrown up. I'm wondering what might have caused that: some of his (maybe) sudden control inputs, perhaps? The second comment concerns his wondering how to pressurize the Q400: he mentioned that he was feeling 'lightheaded," as he put it. From the looks of the video I've seen and from what I've heard of his interactions with ATC, it doesn't appear that he was at altitudes whereby he would need pressurization.

[KevinAu 441]

1 hour ago, jon b said:

I’m having a problem accepting that these manoeuvres could have been flown by someone without some prior experience.

Commercial aircraft are heavy on the controls and are designed to be inherently stable, these manoeuvres would be uncomfortable ,high G, and require a lot of control force with the aircraft being well out of trim.

Anyone who flies commercial aircraft for real will have flown jet upset / outside envelope manoeuvres in the sim and know that these things aren’t that east to throw around.The level out just above the water is either very lucky or skilled, not sure which at this stage.

I actually think not having any flight experience is an advantage to doing wild maneuvers in a plane. Because you won’t have any built in restraints with the controls. You just don’t know what you can’t do. The air combat experience places have said their customers with no flight experience tend to win more compared to customers who are pilots, since they dont have the same inhibitions to wildly throwing a stick around as the pilots do.