who stole the plane

[Chock 17,769]

Just thought I'd mention here that with regard to the other thread which popped up (and was closed) relating to information for an article about the matter. I responded to the provided journalists email in quite some detail about the matter, since I think it's important to furnish the facts rather than to clam up and come across as though we need to hide anything. In short, I gave some info about what is out there sim-wise, but I said that it's my conclusion the guy combined what he knew of the systems on board from being the person in the left seat to control the brakes when on tows as part of his necessary training for the job, with perhaps some more game-related stuff with aeroplanes in them, as opposed to having sat there for weeks studying something such as the Majestic Dash 8.

I'm willing to bet that if and when the CVR and FDR are recovered intact and studied, they'll most likely show the thing was subjected to some quite significant excessive g-loads and I suspect it would not have been in great shape following those had it come down in one piece.

Edited August 14, 2018 by Chock

[skelsey 765]

37 minutes ago, Chock said:

In short, I gave some info about what is out there sim-wise, but I said that it's my conclusion

Al - I hope that the information you have provided in good faith does not end up biting you. As you will know, condensing a subject one doesn't fully understand in to a sentence or two often causes much subtlety to be missed.

The thing which concerns me is that as far as I know still there is a lack of any evidence to confirm he even owned a copy of MSFS, let alone any addons, so by definition any piece on the subject is nothing more than speculation.

(Incidentally - all on this thread and across Avsim should probably be mindful that there's likely more than just one journalist reading these threads and you may find your words up in lights whether solicited or otherwise).

[Chock 17,769]

Having been a newspaper writer in the past (did that for well over ten years), I'm aware that when you're up against a deadline as a writer, it can be difficult to gain accurate information which can be concisely conveyed yet remain accurate. I'm not gonna stick the entire email I sent on this thread (if anyone wants to see it, they can PM me), but I will include this excerpt:

'It's my experience that people heavily into flight simulation to the extent that they will spend very large amounts of money on a PC necessary to run such software, and even more money on a lot of add-ons for it (we are talking about several thousand Pounds/Dollars here just to get started), will generally want to learn to do things properly, and take pride in having done. So flight simulation as a hobby is often an educational pursuit as much as it is a practical one.

 

Thus when we saw the footage of the ramp agent throwing that Bombardier about, I am inclined to believe that he was not a big flight sim enthusiast, but had instead combined what training he had from having to sit in the cockpit when operating the brakes for aeroplane towing operations, with probably what he had gleaned from movies and some computer games which have a bit of not particularly realistic flying included in them. This is of course guesswork on my part, but not - I'll warrant -  uneducated guesswork.'

[ErichB 3,640]

Unfortunately we live in a world of offence, paranoia, sensationalism and blame.  Very often, these factors are combined to form a ridiculously out-of-context view on everything.  Unfortunately, widespread published opinion is the domain of the uninformed these days. 

So, input with a balanced view from people who understand the simulation world is probably a good thing - although, even the most articulately stated argument risks sensationalist interpretation.

This whole story is very bizarre to say the least and fligthsimming will become a 'bad thing' if the Majestic Q400 was found on his PC.  Hopefully that is not the case.

[Chock 17,769]

What I do know is that whenever there is a high profile news story, it's going to get written about whether people choose to provide information or not, this I also know from personal experience, and I'll tell you a true story about that which illustrates it pretty well...

Many years ago (in the 1980s), when both myself and my sister still lived with our parents, my sister was learning to drive and having weekly lessons. I can recall my sister being somewhat frustrated on one occasion when her instructor did not show up for her lesson one day. Unfortunately, the reason he did not show up for her driving lesson, was because at that time he was otherwise engaged in killing his wife and step-daughter (and doing some other stuff I won't mention). He then went on the run for, if I recall correctly, a couple of weeks, faking his own suicide by leaving his clothes on a beach. However, he did subsequently give himself up, was eventually tried and ended up in prison.

But whilst he was on the run, many of the UK's tabloid newspapers were running stories on the case, which had sparked national interest in the UK for several days, since there was much speculation about his 'suicide' being the ruse it subsequently turned out to be. Somehow, tabloid newspapers managed to find out that my sister was one of his pupils, found her address and - this being the era of much chequebook journalism in the UK - next thing we know there are several journalists camped outside our house attempting to question my sister whenever they spotted her leaving or returning. These people were literally waving chequebooks about and offering cash for interviews whenever they spotted her or anyone who they thought my have some gossip about her. I'm pleased to say she declined their offers of cash. But I recall saying to her in the midst of all this, that whether she took the money off them or not, she'd better understand that they'd write about her anyway. This they indeed did, despite her never talking to them, and everything they wrote about her, with the exception of getting her age right, was utter rubbish, totally made up nonsense.

If there's lesson at all in that tale, it is I suppose, that newspapers are going to write about stuff anyway, and if they don't have any facts to report, you can be sure they'll just make stuff up, so on occasion it probably does help to set them straight about stuff if you can although when people do that sort of thing for money, it is reprehensible.

[Christopher Low 5,352]

To be honest, I think we should be more concerned about making sure that airliners cannot be taken for unauthorised joy rides than whether or not the "pilot" had learned how to fly one on a PC.

Edited August 14, 2018 by Christopher Low

[ErichB 3,640]

50 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

To be honest, I think we should be more concerned about making sure that airliners cannot be taken for unauthorised joy rides than whether or not the "pilot" had learned how to fly one on a PC.

Precisely, but that doesn't make as good a story.  The WSJ came straight here after 5 minutes - so you know what's coming.

[HiFlyer 9,358]

6 hours ago, Chock said:

Just thought I'd mention here that with regard to the other thread which popped up (and was closed) relating to information for an article about the matter. I responded to the provided journalists email in quite some detail about the matter, since I think it's important to furnish the facts rather than to clam up and come across as though we need to hide anything.

Yeah, I read that thread, such as it was......

******* we can be weird, sometimes. 😮

 

[n4gix 4,947]

20 hours ago, scottb613 said:

Hi Bill,

The tape I heard had him challenged repeatedly - he just didn't respond...

Regards,
Scott

I heard that this morning. He was called multiple times when entering and then lining up on 16C...

[charliearon 3,023]

Pretty much all a moot point because Flyaway Simulations was on the news last night.  Their head guy, who probably contacted the news agency,  was explaining how FSX works and showed a sample aircraft on the runway.  They also interviewed the folks who run the Flight Simulation area at Hiller Air Museum at the San Carlos Airport in the Bay area.

 

[Chock 17,769]

4 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

To be honest, I think we should be more concerned about making sure that airliners cannot be taken for unauthorised joy rides than whether or not the "pilot" had learned how to fly one on a PC.

Of course I daresay much will be made of the fact that an airliner was taken without authorisation to do so, but the suggestion made by some, that aeroplanes are left around completely unguarded, is somewhat disingenuous. Right now, the security measures at commercial airports are based on the concept that the airside perimeters are secured and that one can't be airside without the authorisation to be there. What has broken down in this scenario is that someone with that authorisation, who was checked out in terms of security, took an aeroplane anyway, allegedly as a result of some mental issue. It's difficult to legislate and come up with security measures which preclude against that sort of situation without making things unworkable in practical terms.

In the UK, to work on the ramp, I had to have a criminal record history check (which, believe it or not, you have to pay for yourself lol), plus five-year work history check with quite detailed references, I also had to submit my tax records too, and had to do a compulsory GSAT test which covers security awareness and such. All this in order to gain an airside security pass which allows me to work on and around the footprint of aeroplanes. It is a tedious process and takes a while, but at no point does it really take into account someone's mental state.

There are some things which will prevent such a pass from being authorised, such as any history of fraud for example, and some jobs require deeper and longer criminal record history checks than the typical sort I had to undergo. In the UK, criminal convictions are generally listed on an easily accessible record for at least ten years, thereafter being classed as 'spent' for most offences unless they are of a particularly serious nature, so people are regarded as 'rehabilitated' if their criminal record is clean for five years. Some airside companies (not all of them) carry out their own independent drug tests as part of the recruitment process and one or two also do some other tests, but these are not that common. Really, there is little to nothing in place to check on people's mental health, there is a medical for driving airside vehicles, and this could potentially pick up some evidence of mental health issues I guess, but it would not of course detect something which had yet to occur.

 

[fluffyflops 1,856]

It will be a hit piece I promise. I'm my experience On average at both VS and EZY it takes the press less than 5 minutes to see a 7700 or a tweet and call the 'red phone' or the press office number. They don't care about facts or research, they are desperate for a quote, to misuse. Trust me. 

That reporter Is deseparatly trying to find a link with 'video games' and this dude who stole the plane. If she can that before anyone else, make 'an exclusive' piece to write it will further her career. That is all she cares about. She doesnt care about the flight sim community, shes trying to please her editor to write a hit piece. 

The press don't care about this hobby. I can assure you. Shes shooting fish in a barrel trying to get a hook lead and desperatly hoping to get  us to say.... 

'oh yeah i know rich really  well, we used to play video games all the time, he used to always go on about stealing a dash 8, everyone knew he wanted to steal a plane, and and of course his boss knew too., Oh  I forget he used to baby sit my kids once a month too, good ole Rich'

She'll be looking for a picture of him playing fs9 with a MAGA hat on too.

That's what she is fishing for something like that, she couldn't give a toss about sids, stars, and the majestic q400

Edited August 14, 2018 by tooting

[Guest]

1 hour ago, charliearon said:

They also interviewed the folks who run the Flight Simulation area at Hiller Air Museum at the San Carlos Airport in the Bay area.

Flown in/out of San Carlos/KSQL a few times, talk about great crosswind practice and airspace avoidance ... thank goodness I was with a very good instructor.  Common route for us GA trainers is KSQL to Harris Ranch (talk about huge contrast in airports/space).  Probably my biggest fear in that area (KSQL, KOAK, KSFO, KJSC), airspace and three major airports all very close ... surprised A380 pilots on approach to KSFO can even see us little specks of background shine, probably look more like a seagull than a 172.

Wouldn't a simple kill engine trigger transmitter/receiver installed on all aircraft solve this problem and be cost effective?  Transmitter/receiver only operates on short range and will only function when the aircraft is on the ground.  All Airports would be equipped with a device that can kill the engines of any aircraft on the ground and within a certain vicinity of the tower.  Such a device would have saved this persons life and saved Alaska Airlines $32 million.  We have these devices available for road vehicles so why not an aircraft (especially commercial aircraft)?

Cheers, Rob.

[kdfw__ 542]

Would be interesting to see how wsj frames this story. 

 

Probably more balanced than the 40yr old 4chan guy here. 

[fluffyflops 1,856]

22 minutes ago, kdfw__ said:

Would be interesting to see how wsj frames this story. 

 

Probably more balanced than the 40yr old 4chan guy here. 

The 41 year old 4 chan guy speaks and writes up reports to the work press office and our legal Council team about 3 times a month about issues with flights where the press have been involved. She's fishing, she doesnt care about our hobby, and neither do the public / masses, thier more concerned about love island and the kardasians, trust me. 

For example, when we have a medical divert the 2 questions will always be, 

A. Did the pax die

B. What was the reaction of the other passengers 

They don't care about how long the divert took, was cpr administered, was it etops or not, was it a 330 or a 787.  Was the diversion airfield waiting and ready for them.  Was the diversion airport in limits, did they pa for a medic.??? 

No, they all care about the sensationism of the 'Drama' on board and was any pop stars on the flight. Like I said, at least three a month,and  the routine is Always the same. Over dramatics not researching. It's quicker and simpler to write 

Edited August 14, 2018 by tooting