GTN 750 Nav Data Out Of Date

[SharpeXB 1]

I am trying to use the GTN750 with the Caranado PC12 and a flight plan from SkyVector

But the nav data, departures and arrivals, shown on the 750 don't match the real world routes from SkyVector

Normally I have been using AeroSoft Nav Data Pro to update X-Plane 11 to the current datasets but this doesn't appear to work with the GTN750

Is there a way to do that?

 

Thanks

 

[MartinRex007 390]

The GTN750 from both RXP and Flight 1 uses the Garmin database that comes with the trainer, the only way to update this database is with a real world subscription from Garmin which is rather costly. They do occasionally update their database in the trainer, but not very often. Perhaps someone knows how to edit the Nav Data Pro into the GTN750 database? I would be curious myself if that's possible?

Cheers

Martin

Edited August 12, 2018 by MartinRex007

[FLJeff337 12]

I'm assuming you're using the RXP GTN, and while I can't speak for that product (only Flight1's GTN product), I wouldn't be surprised if the same issue affects both products (RXP and F1).

What I found out in trying to upgrade the F1 GTN database is that Garmin requires you own a real GTN unit before you can even download an updated database. Both the unit serial number and N-number of the aircraft it's installed in are required information. In other words, even if you're ready and willing to spend the money on RW navdata, there's no way to obtain it without first owning a real GTN unit.

I found this out myself when I purchased current Garmin navdata for the US, thinking I could download the database, and then update the database that's included with the GTN trainer software that's used with the F1 GTN. Unfortunately, I was not allowed to even download the database I purchased without a real serial number and N-number (although fortunately, Garmin was gracious and refunded me, which I give them credit for).

I think the database used by the real GTN units is the same data used by Garmin's trainer, since I've read of real-world GTN owners using the navdata from their RW subscription in their simulated GTN. It's also been recommended that, if you know someone with a real-world GTN, that you might be able to use their second-hand navdata in your sim GTN. Unfortunately, I don't own a plane with a GTN unit, and the closest thing I have to a friend matching that criteria is the FBO I've rented from (and as I haven't flown for real for about 6 months, I'd feel uncomfortable asking them about it).

While I can't speak for RXP, I do wish Flight1 had included a disclaimer that the database with their product was not updateable.

If someone knows how to upgrade the navdata in the RXP unit, I'd like to hear about it, since I might switch to the RXP product if upgradable navdata was a feature.

Hope I was able to help....

Jeff

[SharpeXB 1]

It’s hard to use the RXP product without real updated nav data because any flight planning you do with real world software like SkyVector will of course use it. I’d hope RXP realizes that and perhaps could provide some compatibility with Nav Data Pro or something. The RXP product is fantastic but they should realize we are mostly all hobbyists who don’t own real Garmins or aircraft. The lack of real updated data makes the overall experience of using the GTN750 in X-Plane lacking since you can’t easily use real flight plans. 

[FLJeff337 12]

What's even more frustrating is, before trying to get updated navdata from Garmin, I first tried to get out-of-date charts (low altiture en-route and terminal procedures) from the FAA, and found that impossible to to.

As the FAA offers current digital products for free on their website (including VFR sectionals, terminal area charts, IFR charts, airport facilty directory, IFR terminal procedures, etc.), I naively assumed that out-of-date products would be archived when they expired, and that it'd be a realtively easy matter for the FAA to retrieve them (even if a small fee was involved).

I was hoping to at least get charts/procedures that were in effect at the time of AIRAC 1611 (which is the databse used in the latest GTN trainer), so they would agree with each other.

I couldn't have been more wrong! The FAA was unable to perform the relatively (seemingly) simple task of retrieving files from less than 2 years prior, and they even directed me to to contact either the National Archives or Library of Congress (and no, they weren't able to help me either)!

With that said, I'm sure if I (or any pilot) was accused of an infraction that occurred when an older cycle was in effect, that the FAA would have absolutely no problem procuring older charts/info if it could be used to prove their case against me or any other pilot.

Anyways.... Just wanted to rant....

[DavidP 1,410]

Have you tried Jeppesen? I own real world GTN's and I subscribe to Jeppesen. I have never had to supply a serial code for my GTN's (where I did with Garmin after the initial purchase as I received a voucher for nav data) and I have been subscribing to them for years.

Maybe they can help you.

[FLJeff337 12]

After looking at Jeppesen's website, it looks like the same restriction applies...

On Jeppesen's PilotPak for the GTN page, they link to Garmin's "how to find System ID on your unit," which says:

"The unit ID (or system ID) is an internal number which is required for database updates and downloads. (These updates can be done on our flyGarmin website.) Each aviation database update is downloaded specific to the system ID of each GPS, therefore if the system ID is incorrect on our website, your aviation databases will not update correctly."

With that being said, I haven't contacted them to inquire about it, but that's due more to frustration over having wasted so much time and energy already dealing with the FAA and Garmin trying to either get older charts or newer navdata, and not wanting to waste any more time on the matter.

I do appreciate the suggestion, and maybe someone will be willing to contact them and see if it's possible...

[fppilot 4,371]

7 hours ago, MartinRex007 said:

They do occasionally update their database in the trainer, but not very often.

The RXP GTN uses a much more recent trainer, thus a more recent database....

[fppilot 4,371]

6 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

It’s hard to use the RXP product without real updated nav data because any flight planning you do with real world software like SkyVector will of course use it.

Where are you flying?  Legitimate question.  I too use Skyvector and FltPlan.com and am easily bypassing such issues.  The changes that occur in the database rarely affect my flights.  The most frequent issue I have is when an arrival or departure increments.  Ex. CHICKN5 becomes CHICKN6.  And often there is no difference between one and the next.  So I bypass that issue.  I do not include departures and arrivals in my flight plans at those web sites.  Instead I use the respective transition fixes for my route for both departure and arrival, then in the sim GTN I use its flight planning to insert the respective departure and arrival that is in its (sim GTN) database.  The web site gives me CHICKN6, I find CHICKN5 in the gauge and use it instead.  Works like a charm.  

By the way. Neither of my flight planning web sites provides export to the GTN file format (*.gfp) for importing into the sim GTN gauge. So if that is where you are planning then you are still needing to use the GTN gauge to input the plans.  Just mirror what the planning site provides with the transition sequence that the gauge contains.

Edited August 13, 2018 by fppilot

[JRBarrett 3,070]

6 hours ago, FLJeff337 said:

What's even more frustrating is, before trying to get updated navdata from Garmin, I first tried to get out-of-date charts (low altiture en-route and terminal procedures) from the FAA, and found that impossible to to.

As the FAA offers current digital products for free on their website (including VFR sectionals, terminal area charts, IFR charts, airport facilty directory, IFR terminal procedures, etc.), I naively assumed that out-of-date products would be archived when they expired, and that it'd be a realtively easy matter for the FAA to retrieve them (even if a small fee was involved).

I was hoping to at least get charts/procedures that were in effect at the time of AIRAC 1611 (which is the databse used in the latest GTN trainer), so they would agree with each other.

I couldn't have been more wrong! The FAA was unable to perform the relatively (seemingly) simple task of retrieving files from less than 2 years prior, and they even directed me to to contact either the National Archives or Library of Congress (and no, they weren't able to help me either)!

Although the free FAA charts are a great convenience to flight simmers, keep in mind that they are produced for use by actual pilots in real aircraft. The last thing that the FAA wants is for pilots to use outdated publications - they are always reminding pilots (particularly those who fly IFR), that using current charts and publications is a “must”. That is probably why they immediately remove expired materials from public access, and would not consider making them available “after the fact”.

[FLJeff337 12]

2 hours ago, JRBarrett said:

Although the free FAA charts are a great convenience to flight simmers, keep in mind that they are produced for use by actual pilots in real aircraft. The last thing that the FAA wants is for pilots to use outdated publications - they are always reminding pilots (particularly those who fly IFR), that using current charts and publications is a “must”. That is probably why they immediately remove expired materials from public access, and would not consider making them available “after the fact”.

True, but since the current publications are already available for no charge, there should be no reason that out-of-date publications shouldn't be made available on a as-requested basis; after all, it's not as if I was asking for old charts in order to avoid paying for current data (as there is is no charge for current data when obtained from the FAA), and I even explained the reason for my request in my email to them (stressing that it was not for real-world usage, but rather simulation/historical purposes).

With that being said, even I figured that filing a FOIA request would be taking things a wee bit too far... lol

 

[ryanbatc 12,856]

Pm me reference navdata

[sparkie66 81]

On 8/12/2018 at 8:56 PM, SharpeXB said:

It’s hard to use the RXP product without real updated nav data because any flight planning you do with real world software like SkyVector will of course use it. I’d hope RXP realizes that and perhaps could provide some compatibility with Nav Data Pro or something. The RXP product is fantastic but they should realize we are mostly all hobbyists who don’t own real Garmins or aircraft. The lack of real updated data makes the overall experience of using the GTN750 in X-Plane lacking since you can’t easily use real flight plans. 

Im confused, isnt the rxp product basically just the interface with datarefs to control the AP end show plane on the map? The actual underlaying product is free from garmin (and outdated navdata).

Bit hefty for 50 bucks then maybe? imho They advertise it as if they made the whole unit, while it's 99% garmin trainer.

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

Some of the problem is that Garmin owns the patents to the real world GTN gauges and if someone tried to build a flightsim version from scratch, they might get sued. The intellectual rights issue pops up now and again even with aircraft models and commercial liveries. One would think that either an aircraft company or an airline would want the publicity but they also want to maintain tight control over their branding.

It's one of those legal issues related to consistency.  If Garmin allowed a third party flightsim GTN gauge, then they might have a weaker case against a company that sold a cheap knockoff of the real world GTN unit. It makes no sense to me but I'm not a lawyer.

If you notice, in P3d, all the default Lockheed and Sikorsky aircraft have the exact model names but the default Boeing aircraft just have generic names. In contrast, PMDG supposedly obtained permission from Boeing to use the model names. There have been similar issues with XP.

[jcbak 1]

I can only imagine the sales increase if the RXP GTN 750 could be updated using Navigraph and if METAR information was available from the WEATHER page.