ATC won't be here anytime soon (and mod annoyances)

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

And it seems I was too dumb to get it. My Apologies.

Well, he did say he was hilarious...!!! 😋

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, pmb said:

And btw: A forum with some critical remarks has alway been more trustworthy than one with clappers only.

I don't think that measures "trustworthy" ... but my response wasn't about critique, it was about expectations and the reality of "start from scratch". 

Well formed critiques are valuable to both end users and developers, unfortunately well "informed" critiques are pretty rare.   However users expectations range considerably and those are uniquely embedded with that specific user.  Is a "clapper" someone with lower expectations or someone that understands the challenges and limitations, costs, and can appreciate the work to cost ratio?

In the meantime I'm going buy Netherlands for AF2 that was released today and enjoy it even without all the features I'm used to in other platforms. 

Cheers, Rob.

[HiFlyer 9,334]

 

[pracines 823]

1 minute ago, J van E said:

Where would P3D or XP be without addons...? DLC is just another word for addons. No one on this forums flies P3D without addons. Or do you think P3D would be much better off without addons? Yes, AFS2 doesn't offer the entire world by default and is offering DLC for (small) regions but again, who actually flies over the default world of P3D? All basic stuff has been FREE up to now for AFS2. Even the much anticipated R22 helicopter will be free because IPACS thinks it's should be part of the basic sim.

Remember when FS4 had 4 areas to fly in, no real weather, no ATC, and totally dumb AI? 

Remember when FS progressed and got more earth, real weather, AI and an ATC system?

We went from scenery disks to USA east and west; version 5.1 had a globe and more and more of the globe was more detailed in subsequent versions. Well now we have FTX and IPACS leads us down scenery disk days all over again! But global scenery is not the only basic feature, DTG did not succeed, and it had the whole earth with Orbx Global, yet simmers spoke and judged silently. 

LM came in understanding where the community stood concerning the FS9/FSX real wx and ATC (basics), and knew that there were options in place already widely being used. Their role was to compliment the situation, not limit us to nothing like IPACS and DTG do.

So excuses for IPACS/DTG business models (which are totally different than LM) cannot (and have not) stand. 

I will not say AF2 is terrible, it does VR very well and its stable, for me at least. I'm talking about the business plan/model that always totally fails in the FS market. AF2 works fine as a game but not as a serious flight sim. Flight simmers as a whole will not go down the lack of basics road with IPACS while we are offered small portions of the planet or an aircraft here and there.

I understand IPACS has their way and they will try to survive the way they can, but flight simmers are sick of going backward and staying stagnant. Flight simmers want to have a realistic sim and enough left over to get a PC to run that realistic sim. With IPACS there is way too much mystery as to the basics; $10,000 later and maybe the western hemisphere will be covered; will some of it be free??? Meanwhile LM is moving forward strongly, having a great relationship with the community as a whole (simmers and developers).  

You said it yourself (annoyances), and many others feel the same....I just make myself ultra crystal clear.😁

[dave2013 1,123]

3 hours ago, shivers9 said:

OK you win!! LOL Here is a similar "benchmark" I have a 2012 Ford F150 that has to potential to fly at hyper-sonic speeds. I just have to wait on Ford to develope the engine and wing design and I will be all set. I will fly over and give you a ride when it is developed and released.

LOL!  You've got a point there I suppose.

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

3 hours ago, shivers9 said:

OK you win!! LOL Here is a similar "benchmark" I have a 2012 Ford F150 that has to potential to fly at hyper-sonic speeds. I just have to wait on Ford to develope the engine and wing design and I will be all set. I will fly over and give you a ride when it is developed and released.

I suspect that ATC will have something to say about that.

[Guest]

Yeah the Netherlands looks great but if i wanted to support IPACS I would buy their DLC not ORBX

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Avidean said:

Yeah the Netherlands looks great but if i wanted to support IPACS I would buy their DLC not ORBX

Then you would be stuck with smaller regions and lower quality. 😉 BTW I never buy addons to support a developer. I only buy addons I want.

[dave2013 1,123]

4 hours ago, shivers9 said:

Not only that....Orbx is just bouncing from Sim to Sim trying to suck up every dollar they can. Guy's we have already seen this Dog and Pony show with DTG. I use ORBX products but may just dump them when I do a rebuild soon. They have not released a product in years now (Edit...here in the US) that improve the general P3D Sim. Yes I know about the Airports... Just not my thing. IMHO as consumers, we would be much better off in the the long run to support our favorite sim with our dollars and stop chasing these pie in the sky start ups. This whole thing about AFS2 graphics and FPS reminds me of Carenado and their flying graphics with no systems to speak of. LOL we have all chuncked money down that black hole!!

 

Yeah, I must say that I'm a bit disappointed with ORBX lately. It's been almost a year since the last scenery region (Germany South) and over a year since the last openLC release. I can't even remember when the last FTX Vector update was released but it's been too long, and I wonder if we'll ever see another U.S. scenery region.  I understand that they've had to make a lot of their stuff P3D4 compatible which takes some time away from other things, but I also think they spend too many resources making small high-detail airports and very small-area scenery like the True Earth and Cityscene stuff.  It looks like nice scenery, but just not what I'm interested in. Just my opinion mind you.  Apparently they're making money on this stuff so I guess from their perspective it's a good strategy.

[shivers9 1,174]

2 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

Yeah, I must say that I'm a bit disappointed with ORBX lately. It's been almost a year since the last scenery region (Germany South) and over a year since the last openLC release. I can't even remember when the last FTX Vector update was released but it's been too long, and I wonder if we'll ever see another U.S. scenery region.  I understand that they've had to make a lot of their stuff P3D4 compatible which takes some time away from other things, but I also think they spend too many resources making small high-detail airports and very small-area scenery like the True Earth and Cityscene stuff.  It looks like nice scenery, but just not what I'm interested in. Just my opinion mind you.  Apparently they're making money on this stuff so I guess from their perspective it's a good strategy.

Yep...can't blame them for making a buck but someone has the wave the BS Flag. It was FSX/P3D users who made them what they are today. Then they kind of drop us and start on all the DTG, AFS2, X-plain and next I guess it will be scenery for Pacman, Kong and Goat Simulator. It has me thinking for sure.

[HiFlyer 9,334]

3 minutes ago, shivers9 said:

Then they kind of drop us

?

Dropped you how?

[shivers9 1,174]

1 minute ago, HiFlyer said:

?

Dropped you how?

In the beginning, and I am speaking only about the US, The big implied promise was for top quality scenery and products for the entire US. It is a given that they also try to cover many other places but after years now It's a two day flight in GA to get to one of their covered areas from Florida. I would have thought that they should have continued on that goal in FSX/P3D before moving to all the other fly by night start ups. That is my personal opinion. I do understand it's about money and customer loyalty means nothing in this small area of commerce.

[HiFlyer 9,334]

12 minutes ago, shivers9 said:

In the beginning, and I am speaking only about the US, The big implied promise was for top quality scenery and products for the entire US. It is a given that they also try to cover many other places but after years now It's a two day flight in GA to get to one of their covered areas from Florida. I would have thought that they should have continued on that goal in FSX/P3D before moving to all the other fly by night start ups. That is my personal opinion. I do understand it's about money and customer loyalty means nothing in this small area of commerce.

I guess it's a matter of perspective.

And some background:

A) Right now, orthos of the United States are free, one of the few countries where that is true.

B) Orbx is now embarking on the creation of high quality Ortho sceneries and the technology to create areas quickly (TrueEarth)

                 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A) Creation of ortho-scenery with buildings requires very precise footprint data and other information:

B) https://blogs.bing.com/maps/2018-06/microsoft-releases-125-million-building-footprints-in-the-us-as-open-data

I could go further, but from my perspective, it seems we are possibly perched on the precipice of an explosion of new scenery of a detail we've never before imagined.

P3D Netherlands/Aerofly Netherlands/X-plane Great britain.......

To me, rather than an abandonment, these seem like the first steps into a new level of scenery....... If we want it.

(There's that glass half full, again)

 

[shivers9 1,174]

8 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

I guess it's a matter of perspective.

And some background:

A) Right now, orthos of the United States are free, one of the few countries where that is true.

B) Orbx is now embarking on the creation of high quality Ortho sceneries and the technology to create areas quickly (TrueEarth)

                 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A) Creation of ortho-scenery with buildings requires very precise footprint data and other information:

B) https://blogs.bing.com/maps/2018-06/microsoft-releases-125-million-building-footprints-in-the-us-as-open-data

I could go further, but from my perspective, it seems we are possibly perched on the precipice of an explosion of new scenery of a detail we've never before imagined.

P3D Netherlands/Aerofly Netherlands/X-plane Great britain.......

To me, rather than an abandonment, these seem like the first steps into a new level of scenery....... If we want it.

(There's that glass half full, again)

 

Well if that explosion happens then it may have all been worth it. We shall see. I guess at this point I say...OK now show me. But if things kind of muddle along then as they have in the past then I have reservations. Having said all that I do think that overall ORBX has been a great thing for the hobby. I do appreciate that.

[HiFlyer 9,334]

20 minutes ago, shivers9 said:

Well if that explosion happens then it may have all been worth it. We shall see. I guess at this point I say...OK now show me. But if things kind of muddle along then as they have in the past then I have reservations. Having said all that I do think that overall ORBX has been a great thing for the hobby. I do appreciate that.

More: Guess which up and coming fly by night sim not only has the horsepower to run that type of scenery at unprecedented speeds, but can do it in VR as well.

This is an investment in the future by Orbx, and honestly, once upon a time, they would have been one of the last companies I would ever expect that would jump into the broader sim market so boldly, especially as JV has noted that it contributes little or nothing to their bottom line yet..

However it turns out, I respect them (and Aerosoft!) for that.

Meanwhile, J van E seems happier: https://orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/158573-te-netherlands-aerofly-fs-2-big-improvement/