Flight-Sim Enthusiasts Confident of Real-World Skills Sarah N. WSJ

[shivers9 1,174]

21 minutes ago, ErichB said:

Doesn’t that play even more into the hands of those who fear the sinister intentions of the ‘rogue’ flightsim crowd?

Most likely only Al Gore.

[skelsey 765]

2 hours ago, ErichB said:

That's why I think the article was cleverly written.  Sarah didn't actually write anything damaging.  She let the flightsimmers do it themselves through their own ridiculous delusions.

Exactly -- it is the hallmark of a good journalist that you don't editorialise, you simply ask the right questions to allow your subject to hoist themselves by their own petard, and this is exactly what has happened here.

The guy gave what he believed to be an honest answer to a question without considering the subtext or the way in which that might appear to the wider world. Contrary to popular belief, in my experience it is quite rare to be actually misquoted by a publication, especially reputable ones like the WSJ: however, what generally catches people out is that what appears in print is what they actually said, as opposed to what they thought they said, or thought they were trying to convey.

[John_Cillis 2,406]

It is generally a challenge to get others to understand our hobby.  Hobby might even be the wrong word, since I use the sims for practicing skills that are useful in real world flight, especially navigation, instrument procedures, things that a VFR pilot might need if confronted with sudden bad weather, such as the dust storms we have here in the desert southwest.  Yes, I enjoy free flight a lot in the sim, or recreating commercial flights I have been on, especially landings with weather to challenge me or add interest to the flight.  My rig is not powerful enough for a lot of traffic, about 33 pct in P3D and similar in Xplane, but it is powerful enough to max out the rest of the graphics and give a realistic depiction of the out the window view.  My CFI said my sim experience was a contributing factor in his letting me handle the Allegro 2000 from takeoff to touchdown on my first flight, but he interviewed me well, and I told him my strengths and weaknesses, such as flying in the all too common Phoenix chop.  I would have soloed on my next flight had I been able to book time on the Allegro, but that became impossible because of the number of light sport students, so I turned to Trike flying at that time, since Trikes are easy (at least for me) to fly and get air time in with an instructor in the back seat.  They are also much easier to land, even in with a crosswind component, you just come in crabbed and kick it our right before touchdown.

Articles like the one in the Wall Street Journal do not show the big picture, especially if the obsessive simmers are interviewed and presumed to represent us all.  Most of us sim because we want to fly in real life, either as students, pilots, passengers or all of the above.  I think a true pilot is always a student anyway, always learning, always gaining from each and every takeoff, flight and landing and gaining from interacting with their flight crew, CFI's, and passengers if they have them aboard.  A rouge tormented person like the one who crashed the Dash last Friday only represents the tormented.  What about people who crash their cars, does the media write articles about that?  Happens every day, distracted drivers, tormented drivers or just drivers who make a mistake.  Most walk away, some do not, but the media does not pay attention enough, especially to impaired drivers and those distracted by cell phones, music, or something else in their lives.

John

[flhx_ridr 28]

2 hours ago, ErichB said:

That is not an unlikely scenario at all  - and it's quotes like the aforementioned which is also emblazoned in the title of this article which will ensure that could happen.  That's why I think the article was cleverly written.  Sarah didn't actually write anything damaging.  She let the flightsimmers do it themselves through their own ridiculous delusions.

Relax guys. You're letting paranoia control your emotions. Your P3D, FSX, X-Plane, and any other flight sim software will be just fine.

[Chock 17,769]

56 minutes ago, skelsey said:

Contrary to popular belief, in my experience it is quite rare to be actually misquoted by a publication, especially reputable ones like the WSJ: however, what generally catches people out is that what appears in print is what they actually said, as opposed to what they thought they said, or thought they were trying to convey.

Depends what you mean by misquoted. We used to make up quotes all the time when we wrote features for daily newspapers in the UK. Not in a malicious way you understand, we did that just to stop people coming across like idiots. i.e. when we'd interview people, let's say we asked them what they did for a living, we wouldn't write what they actually said because that'd mean writing something like their real reply which would be:

'Oooh, let me think, how can I put it? Well, erm, what I do is, erm, is that microphone on? Okay, you want me to carry on? Okay... Well, erm, I kind of am in control of the sales, I mean erm, the sales department, that is to say, erm, well, I sort of run it even though that's not actually my job title you understand, I work in the cake department and my real job title is cake tester, not that I ever actually test cakes, well, I do sometimes, but not that often. Is that okay?'

Think they'd want us to put that down in print verbatim? Nah, not a chance. We'd keep the thrust of what they said, but write it to make them not come across like a pillock. And you know what? We never once got accused of writing something they didn't say, because their self image was preserved by us doing that. They really would think what we wrote was what they actually said.

Edited August 17, 2018 by Chock

[skelsey 765]

18 minutes ago, Chock said:

Depends what you mean by misquoted. We used to make up quotes all the time when we wrote features for daily newspapers in the UK. Not in a malicious way you understand, we did that just to stop people coming across like idiots. i.e. when we'd interview people, let's say we asked them what they did for a living, we wouldn't write what they actually said because that'd mean writing something like their real reply which would be:

'Oooh, let me think, how can I put it? Well, erm, what I do is, erm, is that microphone on? Okay, you want me to carry on? Okay... Well, erm, I kind of am in control of the sales, I mean erm, the sales department, that is to say, erm, well, I sort of run it even though that's not actually my job title you understand, I work in the cake department and my real job title is cake tester, not that I ever actually test cakes, well, I do sometimes, but not that often. Is that okay?'

Think they'd want us to put that down in print verbatim? Nah, not a chance. We'd keep the thrust of what they said, but write it to make them not come across like a pillock. And you know what? We never once got accused of writing something they didn't say, because their self image was preserved by us doing that. They really would think what we wrote was what they actually said.

Oh sure -- and in the broadcast media we certainly 'tidy up' some people's answers ('real' people, that is; not, generally, politicians etc) from time to time to make them make sense/get rid of waffle.

Slightly less well-meaning was my wife's friend's older brother -- some years ago (when she was still a teenager) he was working primarily for a local paper, but did some shifts at a national tabloid as well (where I believe he now works full-time). He would quite often ring up my wife when in need of a quote for a story -- for example, one weekend when it was slightly more sunny than usual my wife got a call that went, roughly:

"So there's loads of people on the beach, right? It must be packed."

"Well, not really... I mean, there's a few people but not really that much more than normal."

"Ah, but I've written this story that says thousands of people are flocking to the beaches in the heat. I need someone to say the beaches are packed or I'll have to can it!"

"Yeah, OK, whatever, yeah the beaches are absolutely rammed."

"Thank you very much..."

However, editing someone for sense is slightly different to actually misrepresenting them by making stuff up. Quite often you will hear people complain of being "misquoted"; invariably if you play back a tape, they said precisely the words that were quoted but didn't realise quite what they were saying at the time, or how those words might come across to a wider audience.

[John_Cillis 2,406]

When we had the Napa flood in 1986, I was unknowingly quoted and named by a newspaper reporter who did not say he was one, or if he did it was well concealed.  At least I was quoted right, my hotel took in many flood refugees and I was manager on duty, I came in on my night off to help out in the disaster, and also to bring my car to higher ground as floodwaters were already a couple feet deep in front of our home, thankfully elevated somewhat higher above the street and nearby creek that overflowed.

Next day my Mom was reading the paper, and she said "Hey John, look at this".  At the hotel I told the reporter "Welcome to our flood sale" as we heavily discounted our rooms to a quarter of our price to local, flooded out residents.  He quoted me as the friendly and affable John Cillis, much to the pleasure of our hotel general manager and owners, who needed the publicity during our slow season.  I guess I was lucky I did not say "get out of here, you are annoying me with your odd questions", or something like that.  I took one of the rooms at the hotel so I could sleep before I went on duty, since I took the graveyard shift when I knew we would get busy from the incessant rain and rising waters.  The flood cut our city in two, those on the east could not cross to the west.  My nephew was visiting friends at the magnificent Silverado Country club, stop for the PGA tour then and for the senior tour in later years and he was stranded for two days until the waters receded and uncovered the cross river bridges.

The Army Corps of Engineers embarked on a decades long flood control project, building a bypass channel where the Napa river meandered in what we called the Oxbow.  Thus allowing overflow waters to come thru and avoid the eight foot depth downtown in '86 and a couple of later floods.

John

[ErichB 3,638]

2 hours ago, HDUltraClassic said:

Relax guys. You're letting paranoia control your emotions. Your P3D, FSX, X-Plane, and any other flight sim software will be just fine.

It’s not about that. 

[John_Cillis 2,406]

3 minutes ago, ErichB said:

It’s not about that. 

I agree, it is about misleading people about flying in general, and a slight to flight instructors, pilots, and the traveling public that puts their lives in the hands of well trained pilots.  Flight is for travel (and sadly, war much to the disappointment of the pioneers of flight).  Flight got us into space, got us to the moon, got missions to planets, all the way to Pluto, undertaken.  Those who abuse flight are not pioneers, teachers or knowing of the art behind flying.  Just about anyone can loop an aircraft, one forgets the barrel roll the pilot displaying the 707 did many years ago.  Especially an empty aircraft, not fully loaded with fuel, can handle the stresses if the loop is not a high G maneuver.  But that does not show off skill, landing aircraft shows off skill, getting them safely back on terra firma, and it was obvious Friday's aircraft stealer did not know how to land or care for that matter.  That's why he said he would not, had nothing to do with fear of arrest.  He knew he would be arrested the minute he took off, so no surprise to him at all pretending it would happen.

John

[ErichB 3,638]

1 hour ago, Chock said:

Think they'd want us to put that down in print verbatim? Nah, not a chance. We'd keep the thrust of what they said, but write it to make them not come across like a pillock. And you know what? We never once got accused of writing something they didn't say, because their self image was preserved by us doing that. They really would think what we wrote was what they actually said.

But the point in this context is - that IS what he actually said. The more important point being that in light of another sensational aircraft incident, random flightsimmers are being quoted in the broadly read WSJ saying,  ‘if I can fly my home sim, I can fly it for real’

Humility and level headed commentary is always the preferred option when providing comment for an uninformed audience. 

[Chock 17,769]

13 minutes ago, ErichB said:

But the point in this context is - that IS what he actually said. The more important point being that in light of another sensationalist aircraft incident, random flightsimmers are being quoted in the broadly read WSJ saying,  ‘if I can fly my home sim, I can fly it for real’

Humility and level headed commentary is always the preferred option when providing comment for an uninformed audience. 

It really matters not. As noted by Simon in this thread, you don't actually need anyone to genuinely have said anything, you can just make it up and claim someone said it. This is a newspaper article we're talking about here, not some kind of legal testimony which has to stand up to scrutiny.

It's a bit like the good old 'an insider was quoted as saying' so beloved of newspapers when they want to make some cobblers up about something. Not that they'd really need to make something up, because for pretty much any subject at all, you'll always find some fool who'll say something about the matter which suits the slant you want to put on a story, it doesn't mean they are representative of those who share their interests of course.

Edited August 17, 2018 by Chock

[shivers9 1,174]

It is hard to imagine that anyone could discuss modern newspapers, reporters, or talking heads as though they are really relevent any more. Those days passed us by a long time ago.

[Guest]

I'm fond of telling people I meet that I have a license to fly the Space Shuttle!

And so long as it in Canadian airspace I do! LOL

My pilots license says I am qualified to fly "All Gliders" 😛

The thing is that newspapers and the MSM in general are in the business of disseminating propaganda that promotes the interests of those whom the proprietors obediently serve. Period!

[John_Cillis 2,406]

1 hour ago, shivers9 said:

It is hard to imagine that anyone could discuss modern newspapers, reporters, or talking heads as though they are really relevent any more. Those days passed us by a long time ago.

So true, the Internet is really the media of the day, Youtube, Avsim for simmers and other such sites, and so on.  The big media is getting worried because we little people know more about what is going on than they do, so they sometimes stretch, or make up news, not really make up, but skew it for some political point of view.  We are not supposed to discuss politics in the context of our hobby but even discussion of our favorite add-ons or fellow simmers is politics.  And it is politics when we diss an add on, or developer, and I only do that if I hear of a developer giving poor customer service.  But even those such reports are political, often skewed by hot tempered simmers who do not realize these developers work very hard to deliver the products we love.  Computer Aided Design--CAD--used for architecture, building ships, aircraft, spacecraft--that is what our hobby's developers use to give us not only flight dynamic tuned aircraft, but beautiful 3d representations of them practically down to the nut and bolt.  I put one Trike up on Avsim and even that simple, simple model took hours and hours of work, some simmers apparently liked it and it still works in P3D.

Our hobby is what it is, of all the public facing forums and social media, I feel a moderated forum like Avsim is as close to home as a hobbyist can have.  Every add-on I have ever purchased, and my purchase of Xplane11 to compliment P3DV4, came from simmers here.  I will leave the forums for a while, so I can take a break and enjoy more simming, but I will drop an odd screenshot here and there if I find anything interesting in my sim flying, or in my real world flying.

John

P.S. If you want to see a good flying scene, try to rent the movie "Hopscotch" and watch the end of it, it is an old movie with the beloved Walter Matthau in it, a fun comedy if you can get it on something like Netflix.

 

Edited August 17, 2018 by Cactus521

[DaveCT2003 1,820]

18 hours ago, ShawnG said:

Sheesh.  as for a lot of the comments from folks who haven't read the article complaining about journalists having bias,  I will just let the Irony of those statements gently wash over them...

I seriously think I found a new best friend!  Loved that little jewel!  I want you to come work tech support with me!  LOL!!!