757 retirement - Boeing’s significant mistake?

[KrisJ 43]

As we now have P3D4 Ready 757 I am interested in others opinion. In the light of a middle of the market discussion, was this the best decision to made considering the gap Boeing has today? I remember their statement that days that they discontinue 757 program as it would create internal competition with 737-900. However today we now that this  airframe, as well as longest MAX,  is unable to further develop into MoM nor to compete with A321LR.

The 757 had all its advantages to further develop that 737 hasnt. Mainly engine clrearance, size. Just wondering how much Opportunity was possible to achive on 757 if equipment with new engines, awionics, materials and other technologies.

Looking forward for your views.

Kris

 

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

Boeing's old concept of Yellowstone Project was supposed to be developed in three phases Y1, Y2, Y3, and this was supposed to entirely replace the 7x7 series with a modern fleet, unfortunately only Y2 has been developed into the 787 and Y1 and Y3 has been canceled as they have just updated the 737 and 777 instead because it was cheaper, this falls short of where they should be with a modern fleet.

The 787 (Y2) was the first and should have been called something else other then a '7' series aircraft, this latest in Boeing Technology is named after 1960's numbering, that was a mistake.

The Y1 project was supposed to replace the 737 and 757 with an entirely new air frame similar to the 787 but smaller, this was cancelled because it is cheaper to modify a 737 into a 737 MAX X

The Y3 project was supposed to replace the 747 and 777 with an entirely new air frame similar to the 787 but larger, this was cancelled because it is cheaper to modify a 777 into a 777 MAX X

757 is in my opinion the best 7-Series ever produced, and yes they probably took it out of production too soon. they could have also MAXed it as well considering they won't be doing a Y1 or Y3 anymore. I would have liked to see a 757 MAX X because in my view the 737 MAX 10 falls short, a 757 MAX would have been better.

With the cancellation of Y1 and Y3 the modernization of Boeing is a very big let down, they have done the band aid solution instead of a total overhaul of the fleet.

 

Edited August 27, 2018 by Matthew Kane

[blazer05 15]

Thanks Matthew - I learned something today.

Franklin Duncan

 

[dave2013 1,130]

I also agree that Boeing should redesign the 757 into a 757 MAX. The 757 is a fantastic aircraft and with updated aerodynamics, materials, engines, and avionics it could well become the best middle of the market aircraft out there. 

Boeing is contemplating developing a brand new MoM aircraft dubbed the 797, which sounds really cool. However, this will take many years and a huge amount of money to accomplish. They already have a great template for one in the 757 and they should take advantage of it.

Dave

[Bob Scott 7,720]

It'd probably cost Boeing as much to build an upgraded 757 as a completely new jet, as the 757 assembly line was taken down something like 14 years ago, in 2004.

Production lines are kept going by orders, and as I recall, the 757 wasn't 'zackly bringing 'em in during the 1999-2001 tech wreck and then the bottom really dropped out in the airline depression post-9/11.  When the decision was made to shut down the line, probably sometime in the 2002-2003 timeframe, demand had evaporated and the sort of technology leaps that the 737 MAX incorporates were still a decade away.

Y'know what they say..."you can never go back."

Regards

[Patco Lch 1,465]

Very interesting observations. I wonder if Boeing may have done well to keep the 717 in production with upgrades for the RJ market. They seem to be uninterested in that arena. Maybe they could have added winglets and other modifications to make it more economical.  Love all the DC9 based aircraft. I know it was not their design originally but they own it now.

[Adrian123 1,015]

Why not just "Buy" a RJ division!

 

Boeing to take over $4.75 billion Embraer unit, targeting Airbus-Bombardier

[edpatino 1,964]

23 minutes ago, PATCO LCH said:

Very interesting observations. I wonder if Boeing may have done well to keep the 717 in production with upgrades for the RJ market. They seem to be uninterested in that arena. Maybe they could have added winglets and other modifications to make it more economical.  Love all the DC9 based aircraft. I know it was not their design originally but they own it now.

This model was in direct competition with the 737 when Boeing bought McDonnell-Douglas at that time and to me that explains why the life of the MD-95 (or 717 in Boeing's) was so short. Now the situation with the 757 is different, considering the replacement alternatives in Boeing are not good enough as demonstrated by the low market response.

Cheers, Ed

[188AHC 2,138]

I agree with Mathew.  the 757 was one of the most comfortable airliners I've ever flown in and handled chop very well   I for one was sad to see Boeing discontinue the production.,

 

[KrisJ 43]

With regards to 717, airlines would by it today if available, at least its what they say. In fact a second hand 717 is worth as a gold today.

Coming back to 757. I disagree that returning production line back and upgrading the plane to MAX will cost as much as clean sheet design. You have core design made and tested, you have production knowledge, practice and at least part of equipment already in place. Its still huge investment but for sure small part of the new plane one.

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

3 hours ago, Adrian123 said:

Why not just "Buy" a RJ division!

 

Boeing to take over $4.75 billion Embraer unit, targeting Airbus-Bombardier

They have to get that past the Brazilian Government agreeing to such a deal. Still a very good chance they will not agree on a deal because it means selling 80% of a Brazilian Asset to a foreign company. The Brazilian Government is very patriotic, it will be a challenge to get past that. 

Difference between Embraer deal and Bombardier deal is Bombardier only sold one of their aircraft lines to Airbus with agreements to continue to manufacture, this was very strategic but Canada gets to keep Bombardier. the Embraer deal means they are selling 80% of the company to Boeing, very different kind of deal. Will the Brazilian Government agree that is in the best interest of the Brazilian People? We will see.