I-PKN LOC BACK CRS navaid at KASE in FS2004

[Guest jagy]

I just bought Microsoft FS2004 and when I went to fly approaches at Aspen I was really surprised to not find this navaid functional. The identifier is not audible on com and nav instruments do not seem to pick it up. I find this very strange since the Localiser arrow is depicted on the "map" feature of the sim. What gives? You can't fly the approach without this navaid because it's part of the missed procedure plus it gets you out of KASE on the LINZ Four departure. Thanks in advance if anyone can enlighten me on this subject.

[jvile 1]

I can assure you the BackCourse Localizer (missed approach) works just fine in the FS9 default scenery.I-PKN is on 108.5 and the approach data as per the GPS receiver has

[Guest jagy]

I'm using the stock airport and when I tune 108.5 and 113.0 while sitting on the runway at Aspen I can assure you the identifier DBL is audible but I-PKN is not. Also Red Table VOR is not flagged on my VOR indicator whereas I-PKN is. I just got off the phone with Microsoft support personnel in India and it took me 15 minutes to walk him through tuning the King radios in a C-172 and how to find and read his VOR indicator but he too was not able to see any sign of a signal when tuned to I-PKN 108.5 while on the ground in position for take off at KASE. I-PKN not being in the sim or it not being a Back Course LDA is one thing but seeing it depicted in green when I hit the "Map" button in the cockpit but then not getting a signal when I tune it in on the ground is annoying as ####.

[Guest jagy]

>I can assure you the BackCourse Localizer (missed approach)>works just fine in the FS9 default scenery.Not when on the runway at KASE and tuned on Nav 1 in the Cessna 172 it doesn't.>which is the VOR C with a GPS overlay and a single transistion>called DBL. The missed approach captures the BC on I-PKN if>you start your turn at the MAFMU Terminal_Waypoint>What you're saying is that if you have the required dual VHF nav's you can fly this approach... "capturing" I-PKN on the missed, but if FS9 doesn't provide the "transmission" then what?>Are you using the FS9 stock airport or did you download a>AFCAD airport from a web site. Some AFCAD designers for>whatever reason moved the Localizer from where it is suppose>to be and changed the freq to 111.15. The reason people are trying to tweak and use 111.15 is that for a year now Aspen has a new LOC/DME approach which is not offset like the old VOR/DME approach, has lower minimums, and is easier to fly. It does still rely on I-PKN for the missed though, which my Microsoft Mumbain buddy could not seem to raise a signal from. If you can tune it and hear the identifier while on the runway, you're 1 out of 3.

[Guest allcott]

FS2004 might not have this localiser because its based on information available in 2003.You may need ot look at aftermarket airports or addon scenery.Allcott

[Guest jagy]

>FS2004 might not have this localiser because its based on>information available in 2003.I-PKN has been around for a long time. The new localiser is for the new approach. What I'm really finding weird about this is that I-PKN actually shows up on the map you can access from the cockpit in FS9 with the frequency and everything. It just doesn't actually transmit. I guess Microsoft should publish a NOTAM. >>You may need ot look at aftermarket airports or addon>scenery.The only add on I've seen for Aspen was for the new LOC/DME approach and the zipfile that was supposed to contain it was empty. Is there anyone here who could tell me how to add the LDA BACK CRS to make KASE work in FS9? I fly a plane out of this airport regularly and I'd love to be able to practice the SID's and IAP's on a regular basis. >>Allcott

[Guest RonB49]

Set the Nav Mode switch (NAV/GPS) to NAV. R-

[Guest jagy]

>Set the Nav Mode switch (NAV/GPS) to NAV. R-Does the Cessna 172 have the switch you're talking about? Because I'm not seeing it and anyway how would that make the VHF Nav radio, which is tuned to 108.50, all of a sudden recieve a signal that I'm pretty sure isn't out there?

[Guest jagy]

>I can assure you the BackCourse Localizer (missed approach)>works just fine in the FS9 default scenery.>>I-PKN is on 108.5 and the approach data as per the GPS>receiver has"..as per the GPS reciever..." ? What does GPS have to do with a localiser back course that is out of service? Have you actually HEARD the morse identifier for I-PKN, or been able to lose the nav flag on your VHF nav radio when tuned to 108.50 recently? Me not. >> gpsOverlay="TRUE"> runway="0"> designator="NONE"> suffix="C">>which is the VOR C with a GPS overlay and a single transistion>called DBL. The missed approach captures the BC on I-PKN if>you start your turn at the MAFMU Terminal_Waypoint>>Are you using the FS9 stock airport or did you download a>AFCAD airport from a web site. Some AFCAD designers for>whatever reason moved the Localizer from where it is suppose>to be and changed the freq to 111.15.

[jvile 1]

I answered your original post based on your content >when I went to fly approaches at Aspen >I was really surprised to not find this >navaid functional.I wanted to assure you that all Navaids work properly as per the VOR approach charts including the missed approach.You also went on to say>You can't fly the approach without this navaid >because it's part of the missed procedureThat again says to me that you are flying the approach but you can't tune to the I-PKN Localizer Now in your next post you are saying that when sitting on the ground the I-PKN Localizer is not working. If you had said the following in the first post my answers would have been different. >I'm using the stock airport and when >I tune 108.5 and 113.0 while sitting >on the runway at Aspen I can assure you >the identifier DBL is audible but >I-PKN is not. Also Red Table VOR is not >flagged on my VOR indicator whereas I-PKN is. Now the answer for why you do not receive the Localizer on the ground at KASEIf you are sitting on the ground at Aspen airport you will not receive the I-PKN signal in FS9. The I-PKN is a Localizer not a VOR. The VOR is omni-directional and the Localizer is a flat beam. FS9 uses 4 math values to determine where and when you will pick up the I-PKN Localizer signal.1. Beam width = 5.0 Degrees for I-KPN in a feather triangle pattern2. Heading (True) = 132.000 Degrees3. Elevation (ft ASL) = 7820.004. Range (NM) = 27.0If your airplane position falls outside the algorithm chart these values create in FS9, there will be no signal. The floor of the algorithm chart in FS9 starts at 8010 ft. The runway elevation in Aspen is 7820 ft. There is no reason to tune to the I-PKN localizer prior to executing the LINDZ FOUR Departure Procedure until well above 8010 ft in flight. This is per the current Jeppesen charts on how to execute the DP properly.If you still want to receive the I-PKN signal while parked on the ground or sitting on the runway then lower the Localizer elevation value as seen in the AFCAD program. That will recalculate the signal floor and lower it so you will receive the localizer signal at 7820 ft instead of 8010 ft. >The reason people are trying to tweak and use 111.15 >is that for a year now Aspen has a new LOC/DME approach >which is not offset like the old VOR/DME approach,No, that is not the reasonWhen FS9 was released many AFCAD designers thought MS had mis-placed the Localizer LAT/LON values because I-PKN is almost 5 miles away and on a heading of 132.0 degrees true heading. There are many AFCAD KASE airports available in Library's that have the Localizer in the wrong place with the wrong freq including the use of 111.15. Three years ago there was no LOC+DME RWY 15 available. If the AFCAD designer by mistake moved the BC Localizer and assigned a new freq, AFCAD generated the next available Localizer freq as 111.15. If you want ATC to recognize the new Localizer+DME I-ASE approach you have to write a new XML and compile into the Airport Facility Database.>"..as per the GPS reciever..." ? >What does GPS have to do with a localiser >back course that is out of service? >Have you actually HEARD the morse identifier >for I-PKN, or been able to lose the >nav flag on your VHF nav radio when >tuned to 108.50 recently? Me not.>As I explained above it is only out of severice in your terms when sitting on the ground. Slew upward to 8010 ft. and it will come alive.You need to read the documentation on GPS receivers to fully understand how the GPS receiver/GPS switch/auto pilot "LOAD" and "ACTIVATE" all the approaches in the FS9 default database

[Guest jagy]

THANK YOU! You give a lot of info in your reply but certainly it is now very clear why no I-PKN on the runway in FS9. I just assumed it would be recievable there. It is with a real VHF nav radio when you're sitting on the departure end of RWY33. I do think being able to tune it and recieve it before you start takeoff roll gives a reassuring feeling, knowing it will be there once you're in the air.

[jvile 1]

If you have the AFCAD program go to List/Navaids menu and double click on the 15 LOC entry. Change the elevation of the Localizer from 7820.00 ft to 6000.00 ft.This will force a new calculation and you will receive the I-PKN signal on the ground even at the parking spots.