What is going on with flight simulators?

[FrankWhittleworth 4]

Good afternoon everyone!

Now, I've retired, I decided to get into flight simulation as I kept seeing advertisements about how realistic it all is.  I done plenty research and found some excellent advice in the chat rooms.  This is what I chose:

Prepar3D
Pro-ATC/X for air traffic control
ORBX for scenery
Active Sky for Weather
Aerosoft for Airbus A320
GSX for ground services

Now, I'm no computer expert and I spent the best part of a week installing all the software and must say, I was disappointed to learn that the latest Prepar3D was just like I remember Microsoft Flight Simulator from all these years ago.  The air traffic control sounded exactly the same and it still had the old runway 23 at Heathrow!  Good lord - it's 2018!

A very helpful lady at Lockheed Martin (Poppet ?) told me to follow a troubleshooting guide and to take off all the add-ons and start again!

So anyway, I started my journey and the jetway came out and broke into 3 sections.  I looked down at the jetway and it had no wheels!  When the fuel truck arrived it parked UNDER my fuselage!!  I then kept getting a message to Open Exit 3 (no idea what door this is meant to be). Oh, well I suppose you can call it a 'bug' and all add ons can't be perfect but £30 for some cartoon men?

When the baggage truck arrived, the little cartoon man tried to load the suitcases into the same door as the cargo containers! Then I was a little surprised to hear that the Heathrow push-back man was American!  And so was the air traffic control man!

I was told to taxi to runway 27-L, but the real Heathrow traffic was taking off on runway 27-R!  I thought the weather add on would tell the ATC add on the correct runway?  Maybe another computer 'bug'.

As I was taxiing, a lorry crashed into me as if I wasn't there and I had to start again.  Second attempt as I was lining up on 27-L, another plane (MD-80?) I remember from old Flight Simulator days tried to line up in front of me!

When I started my takeoff roll, everything got very jerky and I just about managed to get off the ground.  That is when things got very weird.  I was following the SID and got cleared up to FL130 and the plane went up like an F-15 - 7000 FPM!!!  I decided to switch off the automation and selected something more realistic - 2500 FPM.

I asked about this on the Aero Soft chat room and an angry German man shouted at me and told me I didn't read his step by step guide and that I must have put in the wrong performance data.

As I was climbing through FL250 the cabin door rang and I checked the cockpit camera and a nice flight attendant appeared on the security camera. She must have had a quick sex change because then I heard a man's voice saying 'here is your coffee captain'!  Right in the middle of the climb I got a cup of coffee stuck on my tray table! Maybe another computer 'bug'.  I had a good chuckle at that.

It's just as well I have my model trains because I don't have time to fiddle about with all these add ons.  I'm surprised that an enterprising company hasn't made a simulator with everything built in?  Maybe that's too complicated for today's great minds. I feel that flight simulators are more for computer geeks who have hours of free time to change settings and play around on their keyboards whereas I'd rather spend my time flying. It also seems like a big money making scam.

Anyway, I hope you had a good chuckle at an old ex-pilot's foray into simulators.

Take care all,

Frank.

 

 

[Jim Young 2,356]

23 hours ago, FrankWhittleworth said:

It's just as well I have my model trains because I don't have time to fiddle about with all these add ons.  I'm surprised that an enterprising company hasn't made a simulator with everything built in?  Maybe that's too complicated for today's great minds. I feel that flight simulators are more for computer geeks who have hours of free time to change settings and play around on their keyboards whereas I'd rather spend my time flying. It also seems like a big money making scam.

I take offense to this comment.  There are a lot of hard working and talented developers out there who are trying to provide outstanding add-ons for our flight simulator(s).  Do you want just Lockheed, Microsoft, Dovetail, etc., to take in all the cash and leave any talented developers in the streets begging?  Without them, the hobby would probably die.  As you are not aware Microsoft got out of the Flight Simulation business soon after the release of FSX/Acceleration which had tons of bugs.  There was nothing for a couple of years after Microsoft quit FS.  Meanwhile, talented developers continued to make add-ons for a buggy simulator that was never ever going to be updated by Microsoft.  They have a license to FSX and there are certain things that developers can do and certain things they can't do because of the license.  Microsoft refuses to totally release the license to anyone (although DoveTail was able to get some agreements with Microsoft but the sim essentially remains the same as it was when Microsoft left it in 2007).  Then comes Lockheed Martin who bought the ESP version of FSX which was not totally under license agreements with Microsoft.  So Lockheed techs are continually trying to improve FSX ESP while staying within the prohibitions of a license agreement which could cost them millions if they violated it.  Only recently has Lockheed turned P3D into a 64 bit product which allows developers to do even more and make P3D run smoother than ever before. 

Even X-Plane allows developer's to create products for their simulator.  Of course some work well, some do not.  That's why we have forums like here at AVSIM where members can discuss the good things about a simulator or an add-on and the bad things.

I could go on and on but this is not a good first post you posted here at AVSIM.  So, I think you need to find a new hobby.  One that does not involve computing or flight simulation...

Respectfully,

Jim

[Bobsk8 12,584]

I agree with Jim, sounds like an X Box game might be more to your liking. 

[fghdgdfdfgfgf 111]

12 minutes ago, Jim Young said:

I

I could go on and on but this is not a good first post you posted here at AVSIM. 

Respectfully,

Jim

Yeah <stealing from the Jim Rome show>, "".....not a very good call""

Edited September 15, 2018 by FunknNasty

[FrankWhittleworth 4]

Oh, I'm sorry.  I didn't mean to offend anyone.

My post was meant to be semi light hearted but it seems that my humour isn't welcome.

I'd be very grateful if someone could recommend an x box simulator, although my son told me a PC was best for flight simulators.

Once again, I apologise for offending you Jim.

All the best,

Frank.

[DaveCT2003 1,820]

I can understand some of the OP's comments from an initial entry perspective, and I've seen more than a handful of non-computer types get overwhelmed right out of the gate.  In fact, I drew up a plan for a large flight sim company I'm affiliated with and floated the idea to them.  It's a package for ENTRY LEVEL flight simmers only.

Best wishes everyone!

 

[honanhal 1,420]

Harsh but not entirely unfair. Bit of a wake up call for those of us who have been using these sims continuously for 20 years and so have gotten used to overlooking immersion-breaking stuff that is glaringly obvious to a newcomer.

I can be grateful that we have folks producing quality addons and at the same time understand that addons have gotten massively more expensive since FS98 (and freeware, while it hasn’t entirely dried up, is a trickle compared to what it used to be). There are many reasons for this, sure, but Frank isn’t wrong that this hobby is a LOT pricier than it used to be.

James

[Jim Young 2,356]

1 hour ago, FrankWhittleworth said:

Once again, I apologise for offending you Jim.

You did not offend me.  That's what forums are about, to discuss issues with flight simulation.  I had just one response.  I wish flight simulation were without issues but there has been since it first became a computer game.  The amount of physics put into flight simulation is awesome with the wings even flexing during flight.  The weather engines are close to perfection too.  You own some great enhancements to P3D and each has a learning experience all in itself.  Again, you need to post your frustra...., I mean issues, with some of the expert members who will try to help when you have questions.

[Bigt 192]

I got a very good chuckle out his post and thought it was meant to be funny..

 

Everyone is so sensitive these days my god.....

[FrankWhittleworth 4]

Hi everyone,

Firstly, thanks for all your supportive replies and especially to Jim for providing context on the licensing restrictions with ESP - I had no idea about all that. Secondly, I understand that the add on developers work very hard and must put bread on their tables. I am just a little overwhelmed and frustrated at trying to make all the add-ons work properly having spent what I consider to be a lot of money.

I watch my son and grandsons playing x box video games in which all they do is destroy things and I think how wonderful it would be if they could find an easily accessible and equally advanced flight simulator to inspire them. Flying will always be a passion for me and I wish that young people will continue to be inspired like I am.

Perhaps DaveCT's idea to bring the community together and make an entry level simulator is a good way forward.  I realise that it's all about money nowadays and few people are fortunate enough to be in a position to take a financial risk on a product that may not be successful.

Anyway, I'll switch on my computer next week and try to mend all the 'bugs' that plagued my virtual flight from Heathrow down to Gibraltar today.

Blue skies and tailwinds to all,

Frank Whittleworth.

[SKEWR 364]

I can see the OPs perspective from a newcomers stand point. Some of these things we just learn to ignore (GSX fuel truck under the wing, ramp vehicles crashing into you, less than stellar ATC (still a great try, etc...) but these things can be "immersion breaking" depending on the user's expectations. So, perhaps, there is a document out there somewhere ("So, you've decided to Flight Sim! A Guide for New Simmers" LOL) that can help new people on what to expect from the flight sim. Then gradually increase the topics from initial suggestions (You should turn off crash detection) to something like Affinity Masks (Affinity Masks are read in reverse and in binary). Is there a document out there like this? Does anyone feel like creating it? A document like this may have been able to help the OP, but who is going to step up? Or, if it already exists, is it easy for a newcomer to access?

 

As for the comment about being sensitive, it all depends. We all have different experiences. "Sense of humor" and "sensitive" are all relative.

[dave2013 1,123]

I understand your frustration with the expensive addons that don't always work like they're supposed to.  You have to be careful about criticizing the simulators and developers on flightsim forums because you'll immediately get attacked.  I believe that besides being a place where flightsim enthusiasts can discuss the hobby and all things related to it, and provide help and advice, it should also be a place where we can critique the simulators and addons, especially the sometimes absurdly expensive payware addons.  Avsim is pretty good about allowing criticism as long as it doesn't get personal or out of hand and I'm grateful for this; other forums aren't nearly so lenient.

My advice would be to start with the basic simulator and a good weather addon which you have. Don't add 3rd party ATC and ground services until you've gotten comfortable with the simulator.  GSX is a cool addon but it is known to cause strange issues which might explain the odd behavior you noted while at the gate, and the 3rd party ATC addons require a good bit of study in order to use properly so you should try using the default ATC first which is actually not that bad although there are some bugs.

Just my 2 cents.

Dave

[regis9 4,004]

It takes a bit of effort to get things up and running, but it’s definitely worth it in the end.

I imagine if I ever tried to get into xplane I’d face a similar learning curve.

[Buffy Foster 133]

The OP was pretty funny and I think we can all relate to it, but the 'moneymaking scam' part wasn't. Theres a lot of ppl working hard, putting their hearts into it, and making amazing things for flight sims.  Some, like the "Return to Misty Moorings" group, even doing it for free out of love for flying.  And tons of ppl that are happy and cheerful and ready to help ppl here. :)

[Holdit 551]

I think the AVSIM faithful need to cut this guy some slack. First of all, the post was meant to be at least a little bit humorous and in any case merely expressed what I would see as being an understandable degree of frustration, considering the outlay that must have been involved in assembling the products in his list. Now maybe he could have voiced his criticisms in a more circumspect style, but everyone's style is different but that's no excuse for nonsense like taking offense or suggesting that the hobby isn't for him and maybe he'd be better off with an X-Box. In my opinion such responses to a first-time poster are disgraceful, particularly from a moderator. 

Wouldn't a better response have been to say something like "Funny post, but a bit OTT in it's criticism. Yes, you've think after installing all those products, it would "just work", but that's often not the case, and the frustration you're feeling is something most of us have felt at some point. Here's why it is the way it is... [insert summary of FSX/P3D, add-on backstory here]."

To the OP I would say this, don't take such responses as being indicative of the only type of response you will receive on AVSIM - there are some very knowledgeable people who will be more understanding and helpful, you just need to develop the habit of filtering out the noise.

Regarding your immediate problem, I would echo Dave2013's advice. Start off simple. Disable most if not all of the add-ons and fly a flight or two, then start adding them back in. Maybe even fly with a simpler aircraft and on shorter flights until you've got everything nicely in tune and then start dialing up the complexity again. It's true no doubt that model trains are probably less frustrating but I imagine they involve a lot of setting up too, before they're just right. Best of luck...