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zanehuston777

AI Traffic/ General Performance

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2 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

He did in the first post. :wink:

Embarrassed. or wot! 😥


Howard
MSI Mag B650 Tomahawk MB, Ryzen7-7800X3D CPU@5ghz, Arctic AIO II 360 cooler, Nvidia RTX3090 GPU, 32gb DDR5@6000Mhz, SSD/2Tb+SSD/500Gb+OS, Corsair 1000W PSU, Philips BDM4350UC 43" 4K IPS, MFG Crosswinds, TQ6 Throttle, Fulcrum One Yoke
My FlightSim YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@skyhigh776

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7 hours ago, zanehuston777 said:

Do you know if my sliders may be an issue? I really was open to any settings being too high for my system, but I now realised I phrased my question really weird. Most people are only talking about AI, but I can't really tell what my card is capable of either. What do you think that could also be having a strong impact?

Apologies Zane, I had overlooked the link to your screengrabs. Clearly the biggest issue you have is AI set at 100%. This will impact massively. I'd also suggest dropping scenery complexity by 1 notch and special effects to medium. Untick lens flare, (try dynamic lighting) drop shadow draw distance to low, only keep ticked internal and external vehicle and clouds, leave the rest unticked. I suggest you do a comparison and see how these changes will prove a great improvement. If you don't want to follow my suggestions, then simply drop your AI to 30% and then do some comparison flights, making notes each time what the performance is like, with and without certain settings. 😉


Howard
MSI Mag B650 Tomahawk MB, Ryzen7-7800X3D CPU@5ghz, Arctic AIO II 360 cooler, Nvidia RTX3090 GPU, 32gb DDR5@6000Mhz, SSD/2Tb+SSD/500Gb+OS, Corsair 1000W PSU, Philips BDM4350UC 43" 4K IPS, MFG Crosswinds, TQ6 Throttle, Fulcrum One Yoke
My FlightSim YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@skyhigh776

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One of the reasons for the performance impact is that the AI logic of the platform is too powerful for its own good. AI aircraft are simulated in great detail, the simulator transmits commands for control surface movements, throttles, props, flaps, gear, electrical systems, lights, radios, doors etc. to every single AI plane in your reality bubble. On top of that, each aircraft is actually using its own FDE as defined in aircraft.cfg and .air files and the simulator factors in all parameters from the .mdl file for routing and collision detection. Add to that the directional sound, that you can make as complex as you want it to be as well. That of course takes it toll, because only the CPU is involved in those calculations. This gets worse when you are using complex aircraft models as AI, with complex FDEs or animated control surfaces etc., because the sim will handle that too. 

Due to that complexity, large volumes of AI simulated objects are putting a real strain on the sim, up to the point where it becomes unusable. All of the traffic addons rely on the AI logic of the sim, so they all share the same limitations. Only addons that control the objects directly would be the exception, but there are none around (that is to say, there are, but the use cases are different - multiplayer solutions work that way). And even if you do this, you have other issues on your plate to handle, for example stuttering object movement, SimConnect flooding and "long frames" when the objects are created or removed.

Best regards 

Edited by Lorby_SI
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LORBY-SI

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50 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

 Only addons that control the objects directly would be the exception, but there are none around (that is to say, there are, but the use cases are different - multiplayer solutions work that way).

There is: PSXseeconTraffic + RealTraffic. AI aircaft are treated as objects and controlled directly. All calculations about position and states of AI objects are done outside your Simulator.

 

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5 hours ago, kiek said:

There is: PSXseeconTraffic + RealTraffic. AI aircaft are treated as objects and controlled directly. All calculations about position and states of AI objects are done outside your Simulator.

 

Yes, that's a fourth option that I've tried. The need for an ongoing subscription means I'm not using that at the moment, but it is performance friendly.

VOX ATC is a fifth option, that works well in terms of frames.

As for Traffic Global - there's a comment above that it's only frame rate friendly because of the low amounts of traffic. That's kind of mean, but I almost typed that myself in my initial comment! However, it's more than that. Traffic Global populates my airports with dozens of aircraft, and hardly seems to affect frames at all, even at 100%.

Yes, there's less aircraft flying that in MT6 or UT "Live", but I think the models are also well optimised for P3D v4.

If you want traffic and great frames (without any stuttering) - which is what OP wants - at this point in history I'd gp with PSXseeconTraffic or Traffic Global. 

Traffic Global also has the advantage of being currently developed, unlike MT6 and Ultimate Traffic.

 


Oz

 xdQCeNi.jpg   puHyX98.jpg

Sim Rig: MSI RTX3090 Suprim, an old, partly-melted Intel 9900K @ 5GHz+, Honeycomb Alpha, Thrustmaster TPR Rudder, Warthog HOTAS, Reverb G2, Prosim 737 cockpit. 

Currently flying: MSFS: PMDG 737-700, Fenix A320, Leonardo MD-82, MIlviz C310, Flysimware C414AW, DC Concorde, Carenado C337. Prepar3d v5: PMDG 737/747/777.

"There are three simple rules for making a smooth landing. Unfortunately, no one knows what they are."

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15 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Zane, at 100% you are definitely pushing it too hard. You haven't said what package you're using. Only MyTrafic Pro can benefit from the tip I posted yesterday. The Ai packages that generate Ai 'on-the-fly' cannot be controlled by RemoveAiSleepers.

I have my traffic set to 75% but crucially the settings I use in RAiS reduce the number of Ai by a large margin. If you have MyTraffic Pro try it.

I also go along with those who advice reducing road traffic. It's a known fps hog. 7% is reasonable.

I am using a bgl based traffic, that I mostly made on my own. Turning traffic down doesn't seem to work from my experience, it just makes like all the planes go away besides like a few, even when you only turn it down to 99, and 99-0 all equal about the same amount of traffic. Multiple people have suggested PSXseeconTraffic, which I might switch to if I could get it to work.

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9 minutes ago, zanehuston777 said:

I am using a bgl based traffic, that I mostly made on my own. Turning traffic down doesn't seem to work from my experience, it just makes like all the planes go away besides like a few, even when you only turn it down to 99, and 99-0 all equal about the same amount of traffic. Multiple people have suggested PSXseeconTraffic, which I might switch to if I could get it to work.

You do realize that each AI flight schedule has an associated traffic level from 1 to 100%? For example, AIG freeware schedules are all set to 1%, so it doesn't matter what the IFR traffic setting in the sim is set to. MyT 6 has all the traffic schedules arrayed in equal steps from 1 to 100% and the author Burk Renk has repeatedly posted in the past that the recommended traffic levels in the sim should be anywhere from 30 to 40%.

But that said, the traffic level settings (IFR and VFR, also referred to incorrectly  as commercial and GA) are imperfect settings. A setting of 50% in  far northern Canada may result in only a couple of AI aircraft in the user's reality bubble (the area around the aircraft). In contrast, if one is flying near a major international airport located in a large metropolitan area like either London or NYC, a setting of 50% could result in anywhere from 200 to 500 AI aircraft in the user's reality bubble. This why it is necessary to use a traffic limiter, like the one found in FSUIPC. This option limits the number of AI aircraft in the user's reality bubble. For example, if the limit is set to 100, at 50%, in northern Canada one will still have only a few aircraft in the URB, but around NYC, there will never be more than 100 AI in the URB.

It's the number of AI aircraft in the URB that impacts performance. In areas like NYC, building autogen and road traffic are also much denser for a given setting in the sim, so the CPU is overloaded by those two factors plus the denser AI aircraft traffic.

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9 hours ago, OzWhitey said:

Yes, that's a fourth option that I've tried. The need for an ongoing subscription means I'm not using that at the moment, but it is performance friendly.

VOX ATC is a fifth option, that works well in terms of frames.

As for Traffic Global - there's a comment above that it's only frame rate friendly because of the low amounts of traffic. That's kind of mean, but I almost typed that myself in my initial comment! However, it's more than that. Traffic Global populates my airports with dozens of aircraft, and hardly seems to affect frames at all, even at 100%.

Yes, there's less aircraft flying that in MT6 or UT "Live", but I think the models are also well optimised for P3D v4.

If you want traffic and great frames (without any stuttering) - which is what OP wants - at this point in history I'd gp with PSXseeconTraffic or Traffic Global. 

Traffic Global also has the advantage of being currently developed, unlike MT6 and Ultimate Traffic.

 

I have downloaded VOX ATC and done a little testing on the ground, and it definitely gave a performance boost. Since you have tried PSXseecon as well, I was wondering if you knew if there was a performance difference between the two.

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3 hours ago, jabloomf1230 said:

You do realize that each AI flight schedule has an associated traffic level from 1 to 100%? For example, AIG freeware schedules are all set to 1%, so it doesn't matter what the IFR traffic setting in the sim is set to.

 

Using Jay's AIG example:

If one uses AIG flight plans, or flight plans with a similar format, AI Flight Planner is a powerful utility that can help manage flight level activity.  What's really cool is that you can adjust the activity levels of individual airlines while leaving others at 100%.  I use it to manage hub carriers at my favorite airports while while allowing full 100% utilization of intl carriers and smaller domestic carriers.

2i1GogB.png

Edited by FunknNasty
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4 hours ago, zanehuston777 said:

I have downloaded VOX ATC and done a little testing on the ground, and it definitely gave a performance boost. Since you have tried PSXseecon as well, I was wondering if you knew if there was a performance difference between the two.

Not that I could quantify, Zane. I found them both to be performance friendly. If I had to choose, I'd say that PSXseecon was the better of the two, but I imagine that it depends on the amount of real-world traffic that is being injected by that program.

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Oz

 xdQCeNi.jpg   puHyX98.jpg

Sim Rig: MSI RTX3090 Suprim, an old, partly-melted Intel 9900K @ 5GHz+, Honeycomb Alpha, Thrustmaster TPR Rudder, Warthog HOTAS, Reverb G2, Prosim 737 cockpit. 

Currently flying: MSFS: PMDG 737-700, Fenix A320, Leonardo MD-82, MIlviz C310, Flysimware C414AW, DC Concorde, Carenado C337. Prepar3d v5: PMDG 737/747/777.

"There are three simple rules for making a smooth landing. Unfortunately, no one knows what they are."

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8 hours ago, zanehuston777 said:

I am using a bgl based traffic, that I mostly made on my own. Turning traffic down doesn't seem to work from my experience, it just makes like all the planes go away besides like a few, even when you only turn it down to 99, and 99-0 all equal about the same amount of traffic. Multiple people have suggested PSXseeconTraffic, which I might switch to if I could get it to work.

Zane,

As Jay has said it doesn't sound like you've followed the rules regarding Ai and traffic schedules. You need to assess how you've designed your own schedule and adjust it so Ai reduces in accordance with the slider.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke, Fulcrum TQ (pre-production).
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I don't mind all of the traffic schedules being set to 1%, because I don't do half measures where AI planes are concermed :wink:


Christopher Low

UK2000 Beta Tester

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10 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

I don't mind all of the traffic schedules being set to 1%, because I don't do half measures where AI planes are concermed :wink:

Nor do I. The AIG schedules are the most recent real world schedules, so it makes sense for them to be set to 1%. If I encounter performance issues, I just adjust the FSUIPC traffic limiter settings.

I do want to make an additional point.  In most parts of the real world one may rarely see another airborne aircraft. This "disturbing" fact often causes users to raise the in-sim AI traffic levels. There's nothing wrong with doing so but then one should recognize that then trying to land at Heathrow with such settings still enabled is going to create performance issues.

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2 hours ago, jabloomf1230 said:

Nor do I. The AIG schedules are the most recent real world schedules, so it makes sense for them to be set to 1%. If I encounter performance issues, I just adjust the FSUIPC traffic limiter settings.

I do want to make an additional point.  In most parts of the real world one may rarely see another airborne aircraft. This "disturbing" fact often causes users to raise the in-sim AI traffic levels. There's nothing wrong with doing so but then one should recognize that then trying to land at Heathrow with such settings still enabled is going to create performance issues.

Do you have to assign aircraft, flightplans, all these things by yourself? This is so much time consuming, isn't it? Is there a pre-made package available?


Best regards,

Wanthuyr Filho

Instagram: AeroTacto

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1 hour ago, Wanthuyr Filho said:

Do you have to assign aircraft, flightplans, all these things by yourself? This is so much time consuming, isn't it? Is there a pre-made package available?

I assume that are referring to the AIG freeware schedules and aircraft. Yes, it's true that the initial setup is time consuming, even using AI Flight planner which partially automates the process. But once set up, the maintenance is fairly routine. 

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