"Study Level Aircraft"

[surfcandy 4]

Are there Carenado Aircraft that are "study level" or are close to study level and why don't they make the list? Looking to purchase some technical Carenado Aircraft. I have A2A GA and I'm looking to add some Regional Aircraft or Jets.

Edited September 20, 2018 by surfcandy

[Holdit 551]

You'll need to look elsewhere. Carenado isn't that sort of developer. I would make some suggestions but it's bad form to recommend competitors in a developer's forum. Maybe re-post in the Hangar Chat forum?

 

 

[surfcandy 4]

I am only asking about Carenado. I know about the rest.

[surfcandy 4]

I know Carenado is not typically a "study aircraft". What I am looking for is what Jets or Regional Aircraft come close to study level and if you believe none do then please tell why.

[qqwertz 770]

"Study level" is not a well defined notion. You will find a lot of heated arguments about whether a specific plane deserves that classification or not. I like to avoid it and instead describe what you can and cannot do.

Carenado planes are hard to beat when it comes to looks. Another plus is that almost all buttons in the VC are working, so you can follow an amplified checklist quite closely. However, many buttons do not have a real effect, so you will not notice if you made a mistake (e.g., if you forget to switch anti-ice on or not under icing conditions). Also, Carenado prop engines are very forgiving, you can often run them at full throttle during the entire flight if you like, with the rpm gauge just touching the red range.  

I personally like Carenado planes and own quite a few. If I want to fly a challenging airplane where my actions have immediate consequences, I fly more advanced models like the Majestic Dash-8, A2A Connie, PMDG DC-6, or Aerosoft DC-8. However, I sometimes just like to have a nice trip without too many challenges, still following amplified checklists. For such a more leisurely flight, Carendo planes are perfect.

Peter

[kowen 64]

2 hours ago, surfcandy said:

I know Carenado is not typically a "study aircraft". What I am looking for is what Jets or Regional Aircraft come close to study level and if you believe none do then please tell why.

None of Carenado's aircraft break. 

[Raging Bull 23]

I never really understood that term either. Hugely overused I think. 

If you want to study a particular airplane and its systems,  just buy the manual for it. 

[FDEdev 955]

2 hours ago, kowen said:

None of Carenado's aircraft break. 

That's simply wrong. E.g. If you overtorque the engines on their newer turboprops, the engines will fail.

 

[FDEdev 955]

3 hours ago, qqwertzde said:

Also, Carenado prop engines are very forgiving, you can often run them at full throttle during the entire flight if you like, with the rpm gauge just touching the red range.  

See my above answer about their turboprops. Concerning their piston engines; Why should they fail if the RPM is 'touching' the red range?

That's what a red line is usually for. If you are staying within the limits, an engine shouldn't fail.

[Chock 17,769]

1 hour ago, J35OE said:

Concerning their piston engines; Why should they fail if the RPM is 'touching' the red range?

That's what a red line is usually for. If you are staying within the limits, an engine shouldn't fail.

It's not so much that an engine would fail at a high RPM (although it might), it is simply more inclined to promote the kind of wear and tear which makes a failure far more likely in the long term when you run at a high RPM on a regular basis.

But, it's only stuff like A2A's AccuSim aircraft which have tackled that kind of thing to a truly detailed level. As obsessive as it is to do that, it makes for a more convincing simulation of operating a real aeroplane over a long period of time, where maintenance is a concern because it is bl**dy expensive, and a failure - which might build up over time - is not simply a 'cool sim feature', but instead something which might present a hazard to those flying in the thing for real. But whether one wants that or not in their simulated aeroplane is of course down to personal preference and has a bearing on what we mean by 'study sim' too.

When you run higher RPM in a piston engine you will put more stress on components, so you wear them out more quickly, and increased wear always means an increased risk of a failure, although it doesn't absolutely always mean a component will fail. It's worth noting that RPM gauges are not necessarily that accurate on aeroplanes either, especially on older aeroplanes, where they have a tendency to under-read as those instruments age, so that doesn't help. Running at a lower RPM, and thus a lower temperature tends to allow component surfaces to mate and lubricate better, i.e. piston rings and valve seats fit better, so compression is better and there is as a result more power for a given amount of fuel. There is less frictional loss at a lower RPM too, so that not only engenders more efficiency in the engines, but also less wear and tear. Propellers are often more efficient at a slightly lower RPM too, they lose a lot of efficiency once they start rotating very fast, as the tips of the blades start getting near supersonic speeds which are not efficient. Exhaust gasses are cooler at lower RPM as well, which means your exhaust would probably last longer too. Another thing a high RPM can do is generate vibrations which might cause damage, or at the very least shake parts so that they loosen over time.

As noted, A2A's add-on aeroplanes are generally very good at simulating all this kind of thing, but by the same token, if you don't actually want your simulated aeroplane to break, then there is something to be said for a simulated one which doesn't replicate such wear and tear. So it doesn't necessarily mean Carenado add-ons are bad in this regard, merely that they take a different approach to creating a product for an audience who wants what they offer. As a result, they have a price which reflects the difference in focus.

As others have noted, the term study sim is so nebulous that it could mean anything. If you are studying flying an aeroplane, rather than studying maintaining one, then the Carenado one where you don't have to worry about fixing the compression and changing the oil in summer to a lighter grade, will be more of a useful study sim than an A2A one which does do all that maintenance stuff, and vice versa.

Edited September 21, 2018 by Chock

[FDEdev 955]

@Chock. While it's nice to see that A2A simulates engine etc. wear (although e.g. AFAIR spark plug fouling occurs surprisingly often) , users who appreciate such things cover only a small percentage within the already rather small flightsim community.

Looking at the countless FSX/P3D airplane reviews on youtube it's amazing how many reviewers (and even the self-proclaimed 'professional' reviewers) are constantly ignoring any red line and/or engine limit.  

If you run an engine within its limits you can of course assume and expect that it doesn't fail. Yes, maintenance costs will soar, but that's another story.

Btw, not even multi-million dollar level-D simulators simulate wear and tear 😉 

Edited September 21, 2018 by J35OE

[surfcandy 4]

7 hours ago, surfcandy said:

I know Carenado is not typically a "study aircraft". What I am looking for is what Jets or Regional Aircraft come close to study level and if you believe none do then please tell why.

Thanks for the comments but I still have the question.

[FDEdev 955]

'study level' aircraft means different things to different people so there's no definite answer. The problem with most complex Carenado/Alabeo aircraft is that, while the usually look and fly very realistic, not all aircraft systems are simulated and/or they don't work as they should.

Customers who are looking for detailed systems simulations are not their target grou (and it would be impossible to produce so many aircraft in such a short time) 

Edited September 21, 2018 by J35OE

[surfcandy 4]

purchased  Carenado - EMB505 Phenom 300 - HD Series

[Pegaso 53]

1 hour ago, J35OE said:

@Chock. While it's nice to see that A2A simulates engine etc. wear (although e.g. AFAIR spark plug fouling occurs surprisingly often) , users who appreciate such things cover only a small percentage within the already rather small flightsim community. 

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Maybe that's just the difference between Flight Simulation and gaming