Q400 RNAV approach questions

[Guest]

Anyone here who knows where I can find more information about how an RNAV approach is being done in the Dash 8 Q400 in the real world? There are a lot of video's of simmers but they are all different. Some fly the entire approach by hand, some use LNAV, some use ARM APPR on the FMS to arm the approach and some even use ACT APPR to activate it, after which they use CNCL HDG to go from LNAV HDG SEL to LNAV APPR... But those are all video's from simmers, not real world Q400 pilots. I am also interested in how you have to deal with NO LINKs in the FMS: someone said you should not delete them because that would result in problems during the approach but I find that when I do delete them the approach can be flown completely in one go on LNAV and VNAV without having to use DTO. I am also curious when ARM APPR should be selected and if VNAV is being used in real life from cruise to landing or only during certain phases.

In short: I'd like to doe RNAV approaches as they are done in real life but can't find good information about it. There are posts about this on the Majestic forum but, so it seems, not from real world Q400 pilots.

I don't have problems doing RNAV approaches, not at ALL, but I want to do them as realistic as possible and I don't know what is realistic! 😉

PS I know about the Airline2sim course and that the First officer training contains a video about RNAV approaches but the description of that video already says 'and not everything goes quite to plan' which makes me wonder WHAT exactly goes wrong... I own and watched the Cadet training and well, that pilot makes enough mistakes to not make me trust him too much. 😉 I don't want to spend 25 bucks on essentialy one video only to find out things didn't really work out and I still won't have an answer to all my questions... Maybe someone who has watched that video can answer my questions above? 😉

EDIT
Find some answers in the Systems tutorial (of course...). Here is a slightly edited copy (removing ILS related info):

"When  the  approach  is  selected  and  linked  into  the  FMS,  and  the  aircraft  is within the 50nm, the FMS will present on the NAV page a prompt to the pilot to ARM  the  approach. 

When the approach is armed, the approach can be activated either:
- Automatically, while transitioning to the First Approach Fix (providing the discontinuity ahead of FAF is removed by the pilot)
- Manually, by pressing the LSK adjacent to “ACT APPROACH”

In  the  case of an  automatic  activation,  FMS will  command  an  intercept  course, with 60 degrees intercept angle to the Final Approach Course.

In  the  case  of  a  manual  activation,  the  normal  flight  plan  navigation  will  be suspended,  and  the  FMS  will enter  an  FMS  Heading  mode  (FHDG  mode), prompting  the  pilot  to  enter  the  heading  for  the  approach  interception  (manual switch  to  the  NAV  page  is  required).    The  heading  shown  will  default  to  the current  aircraft  heading.  When  FMS  establishes  that  the  aircraft  is  on  the acceptable  intercept  course  to  the  final  approach  segment,  the  INTERCEPT prompt will appear on the NAV page . Pressing the INTERCEPT LSK will enable the FMS to automatically switch to the approach mode, when the aircraft nears the approach path."

So apparently NO LINKs should be deleted in the end (although the tutorial also states it is usual procedure to leave the NO LINK at the end of the STAR until you are given clearance) and LNAV HDG SEL shouldn't be 'turned off' by pressing CNCL HDG, as seen in various video's, but by selecting INTERCEPT. Although I myself usually only ARM the approach.

Still, I'd love to see a real world video, including all details, of an RNAV approach...

Edited September 23, 2018 by Guest

[GHarrall 494]

I have the first officer course. If I recall, the instruction /theory part of the RNAV procedures was good and no issues. I'm not sure I remember what the issue was during the actual flight. It may have been the short runway :). Either way, I'm pretty sure the instruction was good.

I will have a look at the video again. (Its 100 mins just on this chapter)

In all honesty, the FO course is a no brainer for the money. Highly recommended.

[Guest]

Thanks in advance for looking! 😉 And maybe I should get that FO course indeed... The Q400 is the ONLY plane I fly and so I might as well spend some more money on it, money I saved by not buying other planes. 😉 I might have another look at the cadet training too: I watched that one while I was learning to fly the plane and didn’t get everything that was being said. With my current knowledge of the plane everything might make more sense to me now.

[ms2 184]

Hello

To have full knowledge of flying q400 as a professional pilot, there is a very good video on Just flight done by real pilots flying in real life this machine.

The Interest of this video is explains are done on the majestic Q400.

Best reference to find for our sim.

https://www.justflight.com/product/airline2sim-majestic-dash8-q400-cadet-hd-video-training

best regards

Mark

[Michael Moe 495]

55 minutes ago, J van E said:

Thanks in advance for looking! 😉 And maybe I should get that FO course indeed... The Q400 is the ONLY plane I fly and so I might as well spend some more money on it, money I saved by not buying other planes. 😉 I might have another look at the cadet training too: I watched that one while I was learning to fly the plane and didn’t get everything that was being said. With my current knowledge of the plane everything might make more sense to me now.

Go for the FO course if you are into the Q400.

Thanks Michael Moe 

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, ms2 said:

To have full knowledge of flying q400 as a professional pilot, there is a very good video on Just flight done by real pilots flying in real life this machine.

Thanks, but that's the Airline2sim course I talked about and already own. ;)

6 minutes ago, Michael Moe said:

Go for the FO course if you are into the Q400.

I think I'll do that then. ;)

[GHarrall 494]

19 hours ago, J van E said:

Thanks, but that's the Airline2sim course I talked about and already own. 😉

I think I'll do that then. 😉

Still need me to review the RNAV video or did you just go ahead and get it?

[Bobsk8 12,702]

The Training videos on the Q400 are the quickest way to really learn how to fly that aircraft, beats wasting many hours learning how to incorrectly fly it. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, GHarrall said:

Still need me to review the RNAV video or did you just go ahead and get it?

Not yet. I watched 3 of the cadet video's again and remembered I am having a hard time to understand that pilot (Jos?). He often talks too quick, with a sometimes odd low voice, and he pronounces a lot of words just half... The recording wasn't too good either (spitting in the mic). So I am having second thoughts because 50% or so is lost on me. Also because I am not interested in failures which takes up half of the course. 😉 Is the quality of the recording AND his speech better in the OF course?

Then again, as I said, this is the ONLY plane I fly so I might as well spend some money on it... 

Edited September 24, 2018 by Guest

[GHarrall 494]

24 minutes ago, J van E said:

Not yet. I watched 3 of the cadet video's again and remembered I am having a hard time to understand that pilot (Jos?). He often talks too quick, with a sometimes odd low voice, and he pronounces a lot of words just half... The recording wasn't too good either (spitting in the mic). So I am having second thoughts because 50% or so is lost on me. Also because I am not interested in failures which takes up half of the course. 😉 Is the quality of the recording AND his speech better in the OF course?

Then again, as I said, this is the ONLY plane I fly so I might as well spend some money on it... 

Sorry, I cant really offer an objective opinion there because I found the recording and speech excellent. It may well be because I'm originally from one county over to the west in UK. Therefore I would say the speech is the same as the cadet course.

Im downloading the RNAV lesson now. Will give you my thoughts later.......

Ok, first comment - The speech is more or less the same ( a bit slower at times) but the recording quality IS better on FO course.

Second comment - all the theoretical setup and flight fro RNAV is done. Problem is the aircraft refuses to descend on the VNAV pth for the descent at Guernsey. They try twice and then end up doing a ILS appr on the 3rd try.

Edited September 24, 2018 by GHarrall

[Guest]

2 hours ago, GHarrall said:

Problem is the aircraft refuses to descend on the VNAV pth for the descent at Guernsey. They try twice and then end up doing a ILS appr on the 3rd try.

Wow, seriously. Okay, thanks, you just saved me 25 bucks. ;) I watched one more video of the cadet training and just as the first time I didn't quite like the little mistakes that are being made. I'll pass. I would have been seriously word not allowed if I bought this course and then had to find out they couldn't finish the flight I bought it for!

[GHarrall 494]

6 minutes ago, J van E said:

Wow, seriously. Okay, thanks, you just saved me 25 bucks. 😉 I watched one more video of the cadet training and just as the first time I didn't quite like the little mistakes that are being made. I'll pass. I would have been seriously word not allowed if I bought this course and then had to find out they couldn't finish the flight I bought it for!

Well, the theory is all there. IMHO, its still well worth the cash for the course as a whole. Maybe not so much if you cant understand whats being said though.

The way Josh is 'teaching' Ben in both the cadet and FO courses is one of its strong points for me.

Edited September 24, 2018 by GHarrall

[Airline2Sim 489]

Hang on, the aircraft did a perfect RNAV approach into Guernsey for the first approach and all the set up and information about how to perform it is in the very comprehensive video. 

After the RNAV arrival I intentionally flared beyond the touchdown marker (as we’d briefed that the short runway at Guernsey mandated a touchdown within the markers) and did a go around. We didn’t plan to do this initially but I thought it might be good fun to stress the importance of landing in the right place on a short runway.

We then set up for another RNAV arrival but this time the aircraft failed to descend on at the calculated glide slope and we did another go around. 

We don’t quite know why this happened, or whether this was a sim thing or a Majestic thing but by now we were getting a bit tight on fuel so we did the ILS. 

The full RNAV tutorial IS in the video, except it didn’t quite work out for the second approach. We left the whole thing in the video as it’s actually quite interesting to see the decision making process once we realise that the aircraft isn’t going to play ball. 

Trust me, I will not sell a video that say ‘hey here’s a RNAV tutorial’ and then show you how to do an ILS.

For what it’s worth there’s a huge amount of stuff in the FO Program that delves deeper into the modelling of the Q400 from rejected takeoffs, engine failures, balancing the fuel, single engine landings, dealing with icing on takeoffs and landing, CATII operations, circle to land, plus VOR and NDB approaches. The RNAV video is only a small part so I don’t think you’ll feel short changed.

Hope that clears it up. 

Edited September 26, 2018 by Airline2Sim

[Michael Moe 495]

2 hours ago, Airline2Sim said:

Hang on, the aircraft did a perfect RNAV approach into Guernsey for the first approach and all the set up and information about how to perform it is in the very comprehensive video. 

After the RNAV arrival I intentionally flared beyond the touchdown marker (as we’d briefed that the short runway at Guernsey mandated a touchdown within the markers) and did a go around. We didn’t plan to do this initially but I thought it might be good fun to stress the importance of landing in the right place on a short runway.

We then set up for another RNAV arrival but this time the aircraft failed to descend on at the calculated glide slope and we did another go around. 

We don’t quite know why this happened, or whether this was a sim thing or a Majestic thing but by now we were getting a bit tight on fuel so we did the ILS. 

The full RNAV tutorial IS in the video, except it didn’t quite work out for the second approach. We left the whole thing in the video as it’s actually quite interesting to see the decision making process once we realise that the aircraft isn’t going to play ball. 

Trust me, I will not sell a video that say ‘hey here’s a RNAV tutorial’ and then show you how to do an ILS.

For what it’s worth there’s a huge amount of stuff in the FO Program that delves deeper into the modelling of the Q400 from rejected takeoffs, engine failures, balancing the fuel, single engine landings, dealing with icing on takeoffs and landing, CATII operations, circle to land, plus VOR and NDB approaches. The RNAV video is only a small part so I don’t think you’ll feel short changed.

Hope that clears it up. 

Great post and I agree. Can you fix the streaming online thing btw? I cant use it on my tablet using Chrome or Opera. 

Great product 

Thanks Michael Moe 

[Airline2Sim 489]

Thanks Micheal! We are still trying to chase streaming bug down. Hopefully we should have a fix soon.