Gabe777

Why Does Microsoft Know Better Than Us ? Updates Destructive

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I've only ever had one (very minor) issue with a Windows 10 update. I am always surprised when I hear of people having problems.

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7 minutes ago, nealmac said:

I've only ever had one (very minor) issue with a Windows 10 update. I am always surprised when I hear of people having problems.

Not so much about problems as it is about having control over your own PC.  I've also never really had problems, but i still don't like the imposition of something I don't want.

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5 minutes ago, ErichB said:

Not so much about problems as it is about having control over your own PC.  I've also never really had problems, but i still don't like the imposition of something I don't want.

But you can disable updates.

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Just now, nealmac said:

But you can disable updates.

Whatever you do to disable them doesn't seem to be a permanent solution.  Somehow, updates eventually still happen.  I've tried every disabling regime there is.  

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13 hours ago, rjfry said:

It`s not all down to Microsoft hardware manufactures will not update drivers for W10 on older hardware they want you to by new they got that idea from apple.

That's not new. I had to toss a perfectly good Logitech force feedback racing wheel because its hardware was no longer supported in Vista. 

The last time "backwards compatibility forever" was taken seriously was when Windows 3.11 released, and even then you only got it because Windows was run as a shell of DOS rather than the other way around.

 

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1 hour ago, nealmac said:

I've only ever had one (very minor) issue with a Windows 10 update. I am always surprised when I hear of people having problems. 

That was me too until this past Spring's "Features Update" (1803).  It ruined my Chrome browser.  I have tried everything but cannot fix it.  Yes, I did an uninstall and wipe clean of Chrome, then reinstall.  Multiple times. Scoured the web and found countless others with the same issue. Microsoft issued an update that fixed it for many users, but my attempts to apply that update fail with a message that the update does not apply to my system.

To spite MS I refuse to use Edge.  So I now use Firefox.

I have experienced no other issues with updates.

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I can sympathize with wanting a "black box" for running a flight sim. I did that for a while with DAW (digital audio workstation) software, back in the days when that was very CPU-hungry, and twitchy about being interrupted by other processes. But that only works if you keep it completely offline, which isn't practical if you're using any of the newer 64-bit flight sims that are constantly updated. Makes it kind of hard to download new aircraft and scenery too!

If you block OS updates and still keep your computer connected to the Internet, then you might as well put out a big welcome mat online that says "please use my computer for a malware host or ransomware attack."

The running updates for Windows aren't just about performance tweaks or driver updates, they're also security updates. And I don't think you can strip out the other stuff and only get the security updates.

Remember the big ransomware attack on Hospitals in 2017? That was an attack on Windows 7 computers that hadn't been patched with the latest updates. Hackers don't care if you're not running the latest OS, as long as they can find enough older systems that haven't been updated. 

Just this morning when I got on my computer to check mail and news, I had a Windows Defender alert that it had found and quarantined a trojan file. This stuff is constantly trying to break into your computer, unless you run a completely "black box" setup that's never connecting to the Internet.

Virus protection isn't enough. There are system-level hacks that go deeper, and that's why you need to keep your OS updated. You're not doing the rest of the flight sim community any favors, if you allow your computer to become a host bot for malware that affects everyone else.

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Microsoft would not be doing me any favours by upgrading my graphics drivers without permission. That may be OK for basic users who only use their computers for internet browsing and FaceBook chats, but it is certainly not good for gamers or flight simmers. It could make a right mess of their setups. Paranoid? Maybe, but I would rather not take the chance.

Edited by Christopher Low

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Not sure what the complication is. Using Group Policy Editor, you can disable driver updates with Windows Updates under: 

Admin Templates--->Window Components--->Windows Update. Then disable "Do not include drivers with Windows Update. 

If Group Policy Editor is nuked because you are running anything less than Win10 Pro, you will need to search google for a work around with regedit, or upgrade to Win10 Pro. 

 

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Windows 7 displays a list of the updates and allow you to pick which ones you want to install.  I always uncheck the driver updates. I don't know why Microsoft doesn't make this type of updating available with Windows 10.  I suppose I'll have to look into getting the Pro version of Windows 10.

Dave

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I'm running the Home version of Windows 10 and I've never had it try to update my graphics driver. That always goes through the GPU card's own installed updater, in my case Nvidia. 

Is this about computers using a built-in GPU on the motherboard, like a laptop? 

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9 hours ago, Gabe777 said:

all the way to 365 days.

Been there, done it, the 365 days were up, and Fall Creators kept placing an Update Assistant on the desktop, repeatedly, even after deleting the desktop icon. Finally, got rid of 'word-not-allowed' ----yes, they deleted/disabled my Creative SB drivers, now speakers don't work----Assistant by hacking the Registry

8 hours ago, nealmac said:

But you can disable updates.

Can you really? Yes, I am sure MS are going to let that happen when the end game is to force Updates to sell.

Current Windows 10 dating back to over 2 years, running fine, as I, and not MS, want it, so I will leave it at that.

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I have never had a feature update not break something in my computer. Whether it is my flight simulator registration, (Destroyed my FSX Box install) desktop, control panel settings, something always gets ruined. Is deferring to 365 days a good idea?

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1 hour ago, dave2013 said:

Windows 7 displays a list of the updates and allow you to pick which ones you want to install.  I always uncheck the driver updates. I don't know why Microsoft doesn't make this type of updating available with Windows 10.  I suppose I'll have to look into getting the Pro version of Windows 10.

Dave

I run Win 10 Pro, and it can be configured to work exactly like Win 7 where updates are concerned. You will be informed when new updates are available, but you have the choice of when (or if)  to install them. I normally do install all provided security updates, but not immediately. I usually wait a week or two to see if a specific update has been reported to break anything - especially anything FS-related. I also have my system configured to never download driver updates, and so far I’ve never even been offered a driver update, much less had one install without permission.

There are various registry hacks that can stop Win 10 Home from auto-updating for a period of time, but it eventually comes back.

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So, how much more expensive is Windows 10 Pro compared to Windows 10 Home? We really shouldn't have to pay more for basic features like update options.

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2 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

So, how much more expensive is Windows 10 Pro compared to Windows 10 Home? We really shouldn't have to pay more for basic features like update options.

Scan UK (who I'll probably buy my next PC from) charge £20.50 extra for 10 Pro on a new build. I already have it on my laptop. If you buy a licence from them Pro is £33 more expensive at £129.

I doubt Microsoft read these boards so what people really need to do is register on their website and complain there. Not having a choice over what updates you want installed is a disgrace.

Edited by Ray Proudfoot

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14 hours ago, vc10man said:

Yes, I am sure MS are going to let that happen when the end game is to force Updates to sell.

Hi Rick,

One thing is certain, if MS are really determined to take this to its logical conclusion then they will have a variety of backdoors in their software permitting Developer access and thereby circumvent any attempts by the end user to hinder their masterplan! Never mind all the legal niceties, their legal staff will take care of that. 

14 hours ago, vc10man said:

Current Windows 10 dating back to over 2 years, running fine, as I, and not MS, want it, so I will leave it at that.

Care to elaborate? I’ve just installed and licenced Windows Pro 64bit on a 2TB Samsung 970 EVO M2 SSD drive on my ASUS Rampage V Extreme MOBO (Dual Boot arrangement with my existing solidly performing Windows 7 Pro 64bit). I see the installed W10 Pro version is 1803. So far, nothing bad has happened, all seems well and, naturally enough, I’m keen to preserve the status quo for as long as possible as I start to learn what all the fuss is about surrounding this O/S. I note that an earlier graphic driver is currently in place 388.??, I forget the exact numbers.

Regards,

Mike

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1 hour ago, Cruachan said:

Care to elaborate

My Windows 10 Pro 64bit is still on Build 1600 something, and I intend to leave it that way. I don't use the Internet on it and I have no need for their Security Updates. If I want drivers for graphics, etc, I will go to the sellers' own websites and acquire the requisite drivers. I do not need MS screwing up things that are running smoothly.

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23 hours ago, SolRayz said:

Not sure what the complication is. Using Group Policy Editor, you can disable driver updates with Windows Updates under: 

Admin Templates--->Window Components--->Windows Update. Then disable "Do not include drivers with Windows Update. 

All well and good but honestly, it shouldn't have to come to this.

MS should include an on/off switch for driver updates within the Windows Update settings.

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5 hours ago, vc10man said:

I don't use the Internet on it and I have no need for their Security Updates.

Hi Rick,

Thanks! Yes, that’s one sure way of handling this irksome issue. Unfortunately, and for most of us, denying Internet access is not very realistic these days unless, of course, your rig is dedicated solely for the purposes of running P3D. Many software installations/Addons require internet access for verifications of legit ownership. How do you get around that? Avoid those Addons or connect/disconnect briefly as and when necessary?

Regards,

Mike

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1 hour ago, Greggy_D said:

All well and good but honestly, it shouldn't have to come to this.

MS should include an on/off switch for driver updates within the Windows Update settings.

They absolutely should.

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36 minutes ago, Cruachan said:

Hi Rick,

Thanks! Yes, that’s one sure way of handling this irksome issue. Unfortunately, and for most of us, denying Internet access is not very realistic these days unless, of course, your rig is dedicated solely for the purposes of running P3D. Many software installations/Addons require internet access for verifications of legit ownership. How do you get around that? Avoid those Addons or connect/disconnect briefly as and when necessary?

Regards,

Mike

Hi Mike

Probably did not make clear.

I dropped out of flight simming for nigh on 7-8 months, maybe more because of Windows 10. I now enjoy P3D on another Windows 7 64-bit machine that I will not MS to take over, or ruin with its so-called Creators Updates. All it Creates is dire anger!

I can run P3Dv4.3.29 and all the add-ons from a different PC connected to the Net quite happily. And be in total control of my PC and enjoy my hobby, too.

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1 hour ago, vc10man said:

I now enjoy P3D on another Windows 7 64-bit machine that I will not MS to take over, or ruin with its so-called Creators Updates.

Hi Rick,

Ah, I see. As you can tell from my signature, you’re a man after my own heart!

However, curiosity has got the better of me. For better or worse (and with an eye to the future beyond Jan 2020) my curiosity is compelling me to explore what Win10 has to offer. A dual Boot setup involving a fast capacious drive dedicated for Win10 Pro is a neat solution while giving me the room to experiment. The NTFS file system allows access to all my drives, and their content, by both O/S. This could become important later on as it should be possible to share certain large blocks of existing data on the Win7 Pro installation with its Win10 Pro counterpart (drive letter arrangements are identical) that does not depend on the presence of program specific entries in their respective system registries. No idea how this will work out, but the journey should prove to be an interesting experience. 

Meantime, like you, I’m more than content to keep MS at bay from potentially wrecking my faithful Win7 Pro installation while I continue to develop the Windows 10 side of things. Plenty time ahead and nothing needs to be rushed.

Regards,

Mike

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