elmucki

Some VR questions/concerns

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Been flying in VR a LOT lately and love it. I actually removed my big fancy 4k monitor as i no longer use it but use VR.

Now i know about the white box issue in VR and solved that by using the transparency slider. No longer get 2D panels to pop up but at least i get clear VR.

My main question is this. Is there a way to get the VR experience to become more clear? i get a good picture, a real good picture, but in the VC, its a bit blurry at times (the textures). Even if i move in real close, it does not become sharper/clearer. Is there a way to accomplish this?

 

Thanks!

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Not to my knowledge. VR is still pretty young and the best software can‘t improve the hardware limits.

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1) If you need glasses in real life, you might just need them in VR as well.

2) Using the oculus tray tool (if you have an oculus rift) and altering the HMD supersampling can give an increase on apparent image clarity, albeit often at the cost of frame rate. Ymmv.

3) You might find more information in Avsims VR forum.

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i dont need glasses....

I downloaded the tray tool and that helped a bit. I messed around with the super-sampling and that helped out too. Still not totally crisp but maybe in some future update we will see improvements... Thinking about returning the Rift (still within return window) but i do love flying with it. Especially VFR and Carrier Ops.

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Thinking of getting VR myself, what is the resolution of the Rift?

So if I wanted to get an idea of how "fuzzy" P3D would be in VR I could just run P3D at the same resolution as the Rift?

I notice you have SLI, what FPS are you getting in VR?   Do you get motion sickness from low FPS?

Do you think VR is worth it?  How does it feel sitting in the 747 cockpit in VR?

 

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With a Rift, using pixel density of 1.6 and up is your best option. Other than that, higher resolution HMDs are already available, but the difference is not considerable. I have bought a Samsung Odyssey and sold it after a while because even though it had better resolution, compatibility was an issue.

All in all I am pretty happy with my Rift and will keep using it until the 2nd. generation comes out.

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Thiago,

I was wondering when you would chime in on this one LOL

So you sold your Odyssey eh? There must be an interesting story on that one.  

I am still sitting on the fence and just waiting for the Pimax5+ prices. Lovely reviews so far and I am pretty sure my system will not take the 8K and the same probably applies to the 5K+ as well. It is going to be very interesting to look at a FlightSim specific review of the 5+ when released.

Regards

Tony

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25 minutes ago, himmelhorse said:

Thiago,

I was wondering when you would chime in on this one LOL

So you sold your Odyssey eh? There must be an interesting story on that one.  

I am still sitting on the fence and just waiting for the Pimax5+ prices. Lovely reviews so far and I am pretty sure my system will not take the 8K and the same probably applies to the 5K+ as well. It is going to be very interesting to look at a FlightSim specific review of the 5+ when released.

Regards

Tony

Yes, I had some issues with the Windows Mixed-Reality Software that runs the Odyssey. My use case might be a bit different from the majority, as I only use VR in some parts of the flight. These activation procedures caused multiple sound problems both in P3D and in XP11. For instance, the airacraft sounds of the FSLabs A320/Flight-Factor A320 would just be lost after enabling/disabling VR.

For that reason, I was barely using the Odyssyey, even though it was a very good piece of hardware. The Oculus software is just miles ahead of WMR at this point.

I will definetely take a look at the Pimax once it is widely available. Hopefully I can run the 5K version on my current Rig as I am only planning to upgrade in a year or so.

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Are you guys seriously using vr in p3d with payware planes and payware airports?  How can you get 60+ fps in Vc when on final approach? Just not possible in any of the main Sims out there.. Unless you are flying pmdg 747 into default airports.. Which beats the whole purpose of immersion.. So what is the bare minimum fps reqd in VR to stave off nausea? 

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I get roughly the same performance in VR as I do with a screen in v4.3 using single-pass render. I've turned down some settings a bit but not to a point where it bothers me. Well worth the trade off. It's clear enough with SS at 1.6 and higher as someone said. I use 1.8 myself.

Edited by andreh

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The sound issues with the Odyssey are a PITA. I overcame that by extending the sleep counter to its maximum value so the headset virtually never goes to sleep on its own. That way it doesn't disable the headset sound drivers by going to sleep. Part of the issue is that there isn't a clean transition from one audio output to another if the active one is disabled. The sound just disappears instead as its trying to send its output to the device no longer enabled.

Doing this put the risk of screen burnout on my headset which I do notice is happening. When I am in cruise, I disable VR in P3D, by habit because if the headset went to sleep which VR was enabled, it would crash the sim. But the white scene in Steam VR being shown for such a long time does cause white screen burn in and is making my headset more blurry...

I wish the headset would just turn the screen display off instead of putting the headset to sleep. It would solve all the problems! Ahh the trials and tribulations of pioneering VR in flight sims!

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1 hour ago, vin747 said:

Are you guys seriously using vr in p3d with payware planes and payware airports?  How can you get 60+ fps in Vc when on final approach? Just not possible in any of the main Sims out there.. Unless you are flying pmdg 747 into default airports.. Which beats the whole purpose of immersion.. So what is the bare minimum fps reqd in VR to stave off nausea? 

I am using VR with every add-on possible and I have absolutely no issues with nausea. Please notice that we are not talking of a 3D shooter here, where it needs to be 90fps at all times. P3D/XP11 are a very slow-paced environment, so lower FPS in some scenarios is not a significant issue, at least for me.

41 minutes ago, truthknown said:

The sound issues with the Odyssey are a PITA. I overcame that by extending the sleep counter to its maximum value so the headset virtually never goes to sleep on its own. That way it doesn't disable the headset sound drivers by going to sleep. Part of the issue is that there isn't a clean transition from one audio output to another if the active one is disabled. The sound just disappears instead as its trying to send its output to the device no longer enabled.

Doing this put the risk of screen burnout on my headset which I do notice is happening. When I am in cruise, I disable VR in P3D, by habit because if the headset went to sleep which VR was enabled, it would crash the sim. But the white scene in Steam VR being shown for such a long time does cause white screen burn in and is making my headset more blurry...

I wish the headset would just turn the screen display off instead of putting the headset to sleep. It would solve all the problems! Ahh the trials and tribulations of pioneering VR in flight sims!

I remember when I had the Odyssey trying all sorts of things to prevent sleep-mode from activating, including taping the sensors and nothing would work. Changing the stand-by timer was not an option at that time, from what I`ve remember. Anyway it is a shame, because the device itself is very good.

Edited by GCBraun

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4 hours ago, GCBraun said:

I remember when I had the Odyssey trying all sorts of things to prevent sleep-mode from activating, including taping the sensors and nothing would work. Changing the stand-by timer was not an option at that time, from what I`ve remember. Anyway it is a shame, because the device itself is very good.

It was always an option but its a registry edit. Just no one knew about it but finally some Microsoft tech guy posted it on some forum that I found.

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5 hours ago, vin747 said:

Are you guys seriously using vr in p3d with payware planes and payware airports?

sure... 

 

5 hours ago, vin747 said:

How can you get 60+ fps in Vc when on final approach?

No need to. 30 is fully sufficient, 40 is nice to have.

 

5 hours ago, vin747 said:

Just not possible in any of the main Sims out there..

Not with a generation 4 CPU probably. I have gen 7 and a GTX1080Ti. My limitation is the VR device.

 

5 hours ago, vin747 said:

So what is the bare minimum fps reqd in VR to stave off nausea?

anything faster than your eyes.

But it's actually more important that there are no stutters. There is nothing worse then turning your head and hence the sense of balance when your graphic loads and stutters. You need a "more than" sufficient hardware and have to tweak your system so that it gives you a smooth flight. 

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Thanks, yes you are right.. 30 fps should be enough as long as it's stutter free.. I still haven't reached that smoothness yet.. When on final, the airport loads and the Sim stutters.. But only the big airports do this.. Some small single runway airports are fine.. Let me give vr a try in p3d.. Apart from AFS2, I thought other Sims are just not VR material as on today.. Lemme give it a another try.. 

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Maybe with aerosoft buses, VR should be even more feasible as they are usually the best performing of all tubeliners.. Q400 performs even better, but a smaller category of aircraft.. 

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17 hours ago, vin747 said:

Are you guys seriously using vr in p3d with payware planes and payware airports?  How can you get 60+ fps in Vc when on final approach? Just not possible in any of the main Sims out there.. Unless you are flying pmdg 747 into default airports.. Which beats the whole purpose of immersion.. So what is the bare minimum fps reqd in VR to stave off nausea? 

Me, i'm using an 8 year old PC with a4 yrs old graphix card. Does not meet the 'official' min specs required for VR.

Nevertheless, i use Oculus Rift and FlyInside and FSX Steam Edition without too many problems. None I'd say. It's pretty stable,I have to set traffic (moving cars) to 0. that is a real performance killer but for the rest i can do with average display settings.

Flying mostly with PMDG NGX, 777 and 747. The FPS in the VC are >40 but FSX itself runs between 10-20 FPS, so those are 2 different things. But that is OK really. Also, the immersion is omni present even with default airport. It's the depth you see, the autogen behind the default aitports lego blocks. the stereoscopic view of the wing or engine, liberating it from its background. When you take off or land, having that sensation of height because of that. Impressive airport scenery? Not so important as it used to be for me now. Nice to have though, yes.


 

 

 

 

Edited by avhpilot

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I did some quick performance tests.. I found an FSDG Lite airport which was really "Lite' in FPS.. i was able to maintain 40+ in PMDG 777 VC all thru the approach and taxi to gate with GSX working, UTlive at 35%.. so such airports are good candidates for VR.. 

on the other hand i did same experiment with FT EHAM and i only had 20 fps thru the whole approach.. would definitely give me headache in VR..  so we need a VR network of airports which can all guarantee 30-40 fps for the entire flight.. 

The other big challenge in VR apart from performance is the resolution.. even with PIMAX 4K i only get 360p level of quality and its hard to read tiny numbers.. of course the pop up PFD helps.. 

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Ditto - I have all of the addons (all PMDG, Q400, Orbx everything, etc etc) and have no issues at all with FPS - it's just not something I have to think about anymore (pretty nice, yeah). I always describe wearing the rift as flying with 20/30 vision. No, it's not crystal clear, but you don't lose immersion because if you can't quite read the instrument you do exactly what you would do in real life - just lean forward a bit. 

There's only one plane I have issues with and that's the Aerosoft CRJs - the PFD and MFD are just too small to read all the numbers. That said, in FI you can just assign a joystick button to the zoom feature so you can quickly zoom in and see what you need to see then zoom back out. 

I do look forward to a slightly higher resolution display and have considered the Vive Pro but to be honest, without being able to test it in P3D first I don't want to pay that much.

Even with the 20/30 vision, I wouldn't go back to flying using a monitor for anything - even if I could afford a full motion sim in my backyard. 

 

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On 9/28/2018 at 4:06 PM, NoahBryant said:

I wouldn't go back to flying using a monitor for anything - even if I could afford a full motion sim in my backyard

 

I've been in a 1 to 1 NGX simulator with 180 projector screen using beamer projection etc a few times.

Yes, the cockpit is crystal clear and you can really touch all the controls. But often the resolution and color vibrance of the scenery is quite dull and the sensation of inside versus outside is just not doing it. It is missing the stereoscop (3D) sensation  and moving your head does not change the projection. there's no interaction.

It's just not as real.

Edited by avhpilot

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Just remember, if you have a good GPU, to enable single pass rendering in P3D. It can be smoother and the image clearer.

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