Landing Weight estimation in EFB (747-8i)

[divinglyc 3]

Hi!

I have been learning the EFB and I found that the Landing weight estimation in the "Weight and Balance" function is a bit strange.

I use the data from FMS as the source of EFB. However, I get the same weight of Landing weight and Takeoff weight.

Why is that or I have done something wrong?

Thanks for help!!

[mfrantz 45]

Landing weight = Takeoff weight - Estimated Trip Fuel weight.

If the estimated trip fuel is 0, landing weight will be the same as takeoff weight. You can set the estimated trip fuel in the FUEL tab.

 

3 hours ago, divinglyc said:

I use the data from FMS as the source of EFB

The USE FMS DATA applies to the TAKEOFF and LANDING calculation pages not the WT AND BAL page.

[divinglyc 3]

1 hour ago, mfrantz said:

Landing weight = Takeoff weight - Estimated Trip Fuel weight.

If the estimated trip fuel is 0, landing weight will be the same as takeoff weight. You can set the estimated trip fuel in the FUEL tab.

 

The USE FMS DATA applies to the TAKEOFF and LANDING calculation pages not the WT AND BAL page.

Thanks a lot. So the Tab "Read from Aircraft" at the left lower corner doesn't mean fetch data from the FMS?

I just found there is estimated Landing weight in PFPX.

[mfrantz 45]

"Read from Aircraft"  does what it says: reads the weight data form the aircraft (payload stations and fuel tanks).

If you set up a complete flight plan in the FMS you can go to the FMC PROGRESS PAGE, get the estimated remaining fuel from the FMS predictions and determine trip fuel. It is more accurate than PFPX since it is based on the actual PMDG aircraft performance/routing/fuel consumption. If you also add enroute waypoints wind predictions to the flight plan  (using datalink) the estimate will be even more accurate.

[B777ER 2,486]

This is bloody good info. Thanks for the information. 

[divinglyc 3]

2 hours ago, mfrantz said:

"Read from Aircraft"  does what it says: reads the weight data form the aircraft (payload stations and fuel tanks).

If you set up a complete flight plan in the FMS you can go to the FMC PROGRESS PAGE, get the estimated remaining fuel from the FMS predictions and determine trip fuel. It is more accurate than PFPX since it is based on the actual PMDG aircraft performance/routing/fuel consumption. If you also add enroute waypoints wind predictions to the flight plan  (using datalink) the estimate will be even more accurate.

Thanks a lot for your info. 😍

[Michael Moe 495]

Sorry for my proberly stupide questions.

Why do I need or use Weight and balance page in sim?

I used to enter ZFW and fuel directly in the FMC letting the FMC distribute the payload and fuel. 

What is the new way of procedure now that we have the EFB? 

Making changes to w/b and not having that info synced with the FMC confuses me.

Please help with a step by step with payload and fuel distribution order .Do we use FMC or only the EFB? 

Thanks Michael Moe 

[downscc 1,327]

49 minutes ago, Michael Moe said:

Please help with a step by step with payload and fuel distribution order .Do we use FMC or only the EFB? 

Hi Michael.  There is no need to change the way you set up your payload and fuel.  The EFB only has to read that information to do the takeoff and landing performance calculations.  I you don't user those two features you never have to worry about the EFB reading the aircraft data.  However, it is an alternative way to set up the payload and fuel if you chose to do so.... I personally don't bother with it.  I'm all for entering a ZFW and total fuel using FS Actions and letting the simulation distribute the loads.

[Michael Moe 495]

1 hour ago, downscc said:

Hi Michael.  There is no need to change the way you set up your payload and fuel.  The EFB only has to read that information to do the takeoff and landing performance calculations.  I you don't user those two features you never have to worry about the EFB reading the aircraft data.  However, it is an alternative way to set up the payload and fuel if you chose to do so.... I personally don't bother with it.  I'm all for entering a ZFW and total fuel using FS Actions and letting the simulation distribute the loads.

Thanks alot. Guess you do the same. 

If we choose the EFB payload distribution in command will it sync with the FMC? 

Thanks Michael Moe 

[mfrantz 45]

 

5 hours ago, Michael Moe said:

Why do I need or use Weight and balance page in sim? 

You don't really need to. But the EFB W&B application gives you more control. Payload zones are defined in more detail (specific passenger areas instead of just 3 classes, individual sections of cargo zones for freighters) and if you also enter  taxi and estimated trip fuel you can check the CG values not only for takeoff but also for landing and if required move some weight around to achieve better CG values (obviously inside the acceptable envelope and if possible not very close to limits). 

The FS ACTIONS payload page will do a good job in distributing weight in the detailed payload stations in a way that CG is optimized, but some times you may need to intervene, or just confirm that all is good by checking the CG limits in the EFB chart.

 

3 hours ago, Michael Moe said:

If we choose the EFB payload distribution in command will it sync with the FMC? 

Yes if you hit the SEND TO AIRCRAFT button. But note that the FS ACTIONS CDU page is not really part of the FMC (Flight Management Computer), it is only a convenience provided to load payload directly to the aircraft (sim).  You still have to go to the PERF INIT page to verify your ZFW.

[Michael Moe 495]

7 hours ago, mfrantz said:

 

You don't really need to. But the EFB W&B application gives you more control. Payload zones are defined in more detail (specific passenger areas instead of just 3 classes, individual sections of cargo zones for freighters) and if you also enter  taxi and estimated trip fuel you can check the CG values not only for takeoff but also for landing and if required move some weight around to achieve better CG values (obviously inside the acceptable envelope and if possible not very close to limits). 

The FS ACTIONS payload page will do a good job in distributing weight in the detailed payload stations in a way that CG is optimized, but some times you may need to intervene, or just confirm that all is good by checking the CG limits in the EFB chart.

 

Yes if you hit the SEND TO AIRCRAFT button. But note that the FS ACTIONS CDU page is not really part of the FMC (Flight Management Computer), it is only a convenience provided to load payload directly to the aircraft (sim).  You still have to go to the PERF INIT page to verify your ZFW.

Thanks alot , that made the hole differents 😊. PERF INT page is the actually linked distribution to the sim weight. Now we have more options to get there via EFB.

The landing CG values part is actually a missed step in my own terms of knowledge so thank you for that.

I was on a flight once where the captain needed to move passengers from there seats in order to distribute things before takeoff though. The plane was obvious not fully loaded.

Guess i will simulate this EFB distribution once a while

Thanks

Michael Moe