747-8 Brake Overheat Failure and Settings

[signmanbob 592]

I have managed to learn to land it without burning up my brakes and flattening most of my tires, but I agree that if we turn off failures completely, then my brakes should not burn and my tires should not flatten since those would be failures.

At any rate this 747-8 is a hoot to fly.  I love it.

[Captain Kevin 586]

17 minutes ago, signmanbob said:

I agree that if we turn off failures completely, then my brakes should not burn and my tires should not flatten since those would be failures.

As Dan stated before....

4 hours ago, downscc said:

A brake failure would be a brake that failed to operate.  You brakes are operating as intended.  They are overheating, not due to failure but due to use.

Watch your brake usage, then your brakes won't burn and your tires won't go flat. Not really sure how to make it any clearer. By your logic, the engines shouldn't have issues if you run them dry of oil if you fail to check your oil quantities prior to departure? Or why don't we remove the fuel density whilst we're at it.

[BlueStar 323]

Folks,

I corrected my brake over heat problem by adjusting the slope in FSUIPC. Make sure there is a large null zone to avoid riding the brakes accidentally. 

A couple of things to consider when taxing at heavy weights:

1.  Heavy weight generate heat just by taxing.

2. Taxi slow, never more than 20KIAS. Consider 2 engine taxi if unable to keep the aircraft slowed down.

3.  Keep the engines at flight idle except to just get the aircraft moving.  

4. On landing:

     a. Be on speed.

     b.  If heavy keep the AUTOBRAKE at a minimum of 3. 

     c.  On touchdown immediately go to FULL Reverse thrust until 80 KIAS and then slowly come out of R/T.

     d.  Don't try to make the high speed turnoff unless below 40 KIAS, let the aircraft coast.  Do not retract flaps/slats until on the taxiway.

     e.  Never use full brakes unless for an emergency.

Hope this helps.

Grace and Peace. 

Edited October 2, 2018 by Bluestar

[scandinavian13 5,192]

6 minutes ago, Bluestar said:

it's an FAA requirement

Citation on that?

Sounds a lot like one of those things that someone tosses out in a crew room and nobody ever calls them on it. It's a bit pedantic, but there's a difference between "FAA requirement" and "opspec requirement" (that, yes, carries the weight of "reg," but I still protest that people make that clear).

[BlueStar 323]

46 minutes ago, scandinavian13 said:

difference between "FAA requirement" and "opspec requirement" (that, yes, carries the weight of "reg,"

Good point.  It is corrected and I need to be more careful.  🙂

Grace and Peace,

Edited October 2, 2018 by Bluestar

[scandinavian13 5,192]

5 minutes ago, Bluestar said:

Good point.  It is corrected and I need to be more careful.  🙂

Was it an opspec thing, though? Just out of curiosity by this point.

And thanks!

[Senchai 24]

On 10/1/2018 at 5:22 PM, Olympic260 said:

The brake message does not appear because we do not use the sim braking system. We are using a custom brake system.

Ok this is interesting and probably would be an answer. But why it shows up if i hit the brake by my joystick button? Because that is a user-event that the sim registers and displays the message accordingly? Are these handled differently, i guess? Because when i hit my brakes  that message gets displayed. And if it would be the problem that my joystick doesnt let go of the brake i would think that this message would display too?

Im gonna try all those tips above, lets see.

Edited October 2, 2018 by SaenchaySor

[downscc 1,327]

30 minutes ago, SaenchaySor said:

But why it shows up if i hit the brake by my joystick button?

Users that rely on a buttton or keyboard key for brakes are going to have to be very careful because the button/key commands 100% braking.... something that Wilhem and others have said you should only use in emergency.  If you do not have pedals then I recommend you use autobraking only until speed is below 20 kts.

[Senchai 24]

Thank you Dan.

And that is all ok and im always able to learn. Its just a bit confusing if something "works", or better said, one can make things "wrong" for a few thousand of hours without brake failures and suddenly one has to be ultra precise in behavior if "the brake system did not change from the -400". But im not looking for the errors in PMDG/the plane yet, i will go and do all that is explained and as it makes sense what i read i gladly will give all that a try.

Because im the last one who wants to make these topics about the 747. its my favorite and everyone around me knows it. Usually its me telling other ppl they do something wrong in this plane^^ When they have all those "bugs" where i never had on all those hours. So dont get me wrong pls.

But seems its shifted with the brake issue for some reason.

[Ken Smith 1]

First Flight in the -8?  Perfect, Great, Dream Machine, Landing?  Nailed it.   Then...     Brakes hot, tires melt.......I laughed silly.   I think I was so happy the sim didn't go BSD, CTD, or OOM, the little, landing roll "error" and learning the ways of the PMDG Realism Force was the least of my worries....!!!   😄😜

Thanks for the input from those that posted about technique on Stopping-Finesse with our new lady 😎

[Ephedrin 418]

There is one thing that has constantly bothered me since I started using and reading about P3D. This might be totally off topic and might offend some (many) people but still I will say it now... Those threads (like this one) are flooding the forums all around the community.

P3D has matured to a point were it isn‘t a game anymore. One can use it as an arcade, one can use it as a waste of time and one can hunt UFOs through the Grand Canyon à la Will Smith. But there‘s a point were one should take it as something else: a serious simulation. To me and in my opinion this point is reached as soon as one buys one of those incredibly realistic addons provided by developers like PMDG, FSL, Majestic, A2A and maybe some others. Addons have never been as expensive as today but at the same time they have never been as sophisticated as today. And people should consider one thing: those addons are made to simulate the operation of the airplanes. Not to jump in and do a quick hop. While they are created to be able to do that it‘s not their purpose. Kyle for example has made a long (!) video about the differences between two airplanes that look very similar and on his yt channel he found himself attacked that it was too long, boring, whatever. No. Subtile sometimes, but important. And needed.

In every forum of those HQ devs I find dozens of threads every single day that bring issues up that show one thing: a big lack of interest in the airplane and more important: the simulation itself. There is no will to search a forum or use  the internet, ask pilots, look for details, or most of the time the really easy solution: RTFM. Use the brain. And now the thing that will offend people: purchase proper hardware!! We have passed and luckily left the time were MSFS was a game hunting animated circles and being told that an airplane is carried up into the air by magic. We know how this works. Lift, drag, influence of flaps, controls, what is trim, why trim, use the very basic systems like the AP, bleed air, fuel system, radar, brakes. And if we don‘t know it, we read, learn and now it comes: we ask others who know it. But not in a way that immediately says „it doesn‘t work but we are told it‘s us anyway“. Not „doesn‘t work, what is wrong“. We bought a simulation that goes into a detail that NEEDS to be handled correctly. And this requires a proper setup. Install, hit F4 and fly is a thing of the past and it must be just that. When an airbus auto thrust system has its quirks and detents I expect it to be simulated in a 140€ addon and if a 140€ 747 has the energy of 400 tons to be rejected from takeoff I expect that it does it in a way that is realistic. And that‘s what PMDG has done! They have taken their development serious. Their clients are pilots, people who want to train their skills with it, they even let their addons to be certified by its original developer!!!

And now I go even further with my accusation: this addon mainly runs and is made in/for a professional simulator such as Lockheed Martin‘s Prepar3D. LM is one of the biggest concerns in the United States, they develop and build military defense airplanes, weapon systems, infrastructure. The real stuff, not for battlefield 3. They don‘t develop games. And they for sure don‘t intend to provide a game. They don‘t care about 200 Million Dollars from the P3D licenses, they develop an F-35... Using their simulation system and using addons for that system like provided by PMDG, FSLabs and so on it isn‘t sufficient to come along with a joystick from 1997 and some rudder pedals with dirt from 2005 inside, connected to USB 1 ports from 2003 and using a GTX 500 card and a 3rd gen processor. People can do that but they can‘t complain about bad FPS or stutters then! While the deveolpers of course try to make it as user friendly as possible to sell as many copies as possible this is actually not the (deeper) sense of the addon! And it is definitely not the job of those developers to modify their addons in a way as for example FSL has done to serve people with their incredible A320 and at the same time modify it so that people without the proper controller hardware can use it... press comma to do this, hold this to taxi and take off if you have only 3 axes.  or PMDG having to deal with „issues“ of hot brakes that behave as intended but people not being able to get away from the plug and play attitude and dig into their setup and adjusting it for a really detailed and realistic addon! that‘s not what those developers should (have to) do and that‘s not what a 747 of that high standard deserves. 

P3D 200 dollars. 747 almost again. Weather 40? 50? Dollars. ORBX 500 dollars. 1000? Get out and purchase proper hardware!!! This is a simulator not a game! Use a setup that makes it possible to simulate this airplane! 

For technical understanding read, learn, ask, discuss. Here are pilots, developers, computer experts, fans. But don‘t expect a brake system to behave as you would like it to behave when you have only a button to use it. And don‘t expect an autopilot to engage if you don‘t meet the minimum requirements, corrupt your hardware and accuse any developer not meeting your mess. And don‘t expect an autopilot to stay engaged when your cheap hardware sends spikes. Maybe this or that hardware simply isn‘t sufficient for a highly tuned system. 

We simulate incredibly detailed and realisic airplanes on our computer. It‘s serious, but still fun. It‘s a hobby. Hobbies like this cost money. You simply can‘t purcase a 100$ RC helicopter and expect it to be a realisitc rendition! That‘s absolutely not possible. Yeah, sure, there are people who can‘t afford a professional setup. That‘s a pity but meeting everybody’s requirements is NOT the point of this simulation! 

I‘m done. 

[Captain Kevin 586]

2 hours ago, Ephedrin said:

Get out and purchase proper hardware!!! This is a simulator not a game! Use a setup that makes it possible to simulate this airplane! 

I wish I had the space in this truck be able to stick a yoke and pedals, but I don't. That said, I do have a yoke and pedals at home for when I do fly at home.

[Ephedrin 418]

50 minutes ago, Captain Kevin said:

I wish I had the space in this truck be able to stick a yoke and pedals, but I don't. That said, I do have a yoke and pedals at home for when I do fly at home.

I‘ve never seen you complaining about the airplanes not doing what you want. You know it and you have arranged yourself with the circumstances. This is for sure not pointed at you 😄 

[BlueStar 323]

5 hours ago, Ephedrin said:

This is a simulator not a game!

Preach it Brother Marc. 🙂

[BlueStar 323]

On ‎10‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 7:13 PM, Bluestar said:

I corrected my brake over heat problem by adjusting the slope in FSUIPC. Make sure there is a large null zone to avoid riding the brakes accidentally. 

One of the things I forgot to mention (part of being old) is the brakes will start to work before the "BRAKE" or "DIFFERENTIAL BRAKE" light on P3d shows. So some of the issues related to the overheated brakes (at least in my case) was related to this issue. 

Grace and Peace,