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ErichB

Poll: Online flying with VATSIM, IVAO, or Pilot Edge

Online flying with VATSIM, IVAO, or Pilot Edge  

187 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you fly with online networks ? (VATSIM, IVAO, PilotEdge)

    • All the time
      63
    • Sometimes
      57
    • Never
      67
  2. 2. If you DON'T fly online, what is the PRIMARY reason for not doing so ?

    • Not enough time
      19
    • Not confident enough with phraseology and/or procedures
      31
    • Too many immature people online spoiling it for everyone else
      12
    • Insufficient ATC coverage where and when I want to fly
      46
    • I do fly online
      79
  3. 3. If you DO fly online, which network do you use PRIMARILY?

    • VATSIM
      91
    • IVAO
      18
    • Pilot Edge
      7
    • Combinations of the above
      8
    • I don't fly online
      63
  4. 4. If you DO fly online, what would you PRIMARILY like to see improved?

    • Better voice quality
      33
    • Much better supervision and a quicker response to trolls online
      14
    • Lower latency
      7
    • More people using online networks
      74
    • I don't use online networks, so I don't have an opinion
      59
  5. 5. If you use 'off the shelf' options (ProATC, VOX etc) INSTEAD of online, have you tried online flying before?

    • Yes and I prefer offline solutions
      38
    • No but would like to try online
      19
    • No, and I'm not interested in doing so given the available options
      27
    • I fly online
      103


Recommended Posts

19 hours ago, mpw8679 said:

I tried VATSIM for awhile but there audio is horrible.  Sometimes u have no idea what the controller is trying to say and u have to have them repeat it over and over.  But other then the occasional controller that needs taken out back and beaten I have found the community quite helpful.

The one time I tried it I got a controller who needed to be taken out the back. I never tried it after that although I often looked at VatMap(?) to see what controllers were active - but there never were where I wanted to fly, and the idea of typing CTAF message always seemed ridiculous to me.

PilotEdge looks a lot more tempting and I might still sign up, but there's the coverage problem, and for me it's a bit of an outlay to commit to every month. Not a huge amount on its own, granted, but when you add it to your other monthly subscriptions...

Poscon looks very interesting, though , and I'll be keeping an eye on developments, but for now I'm offline only and I'll tolerate the default ATC for VFR or use Radar Contact for IFR.

 

 

Edited by Holdit

Paul Synnott

 

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11 minutes ago, Holdit said:

The one time I tried it I got a controller who needed to be taken out the back. I never tried it after that although I often looked at VatMap(?) to see what controllers were active - but there never were where I wanted to fly, and the idea of typing CTAF message always seemed ridiculous to me.

PilotEdge looks a lot more tempting and I might still sign up, but there's the coverage problem, and for me it's a bit of an outlay to commit to every month. Not a huge amount on its own, granted, but when you add it to your other monthly subscriptions...

Poscon looks very interesting, though , and I'll be keeping an eye on developments, but for now I'm offline only and I'll tolerate the default ATC for VFR or use Radar Contact for IFR.

 

 

I tried Pilot Edge for a few months but like u said the monthly subscription is hard to swallow especially since I only had time for 4-5 flights a month.  It was hard to justify.  But if u want to learn it is by far the best way to go.  The controllers are professional, strict, and helpful.  To get the most out of it u have to commit to the smaller coverage areas and shorter flights.  Load up the ORBX California regions, A2A GA of your choice, or Majestic Q400, and u will have a blast while learning ALOT.

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Matt Wilson

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5 minutes ago, mpw8679 said:

The controllers are professional, strict, and helpful. 

I agree. They have free sample audios of their sessions available on their site and I've listened to quite a few and been impressed.

 


Paul Synnott

 

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You really wouldn't want me flying around in your airspace. I prefer to keep my own pace :laugh:

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Christopher Low

UK2000 Beta Tester

FSBetaTesters3.png

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VATSIM will get much better Voice quality soon (I hope) they announced on Facebook that they are beta testing new voice codec stuff and things like voice-unicom, quality by range and other awesome things! 

Looks like a new era of online flying to me! 


Klaus Schmitzer

2J5O5jV.png

 

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21 hours ago, skelsey said:

Which empires and whose egos?

This  is classic Vatsim uk  empires and egos.

A  Vatsim uk member back in 2011 tried to raise  a concern for 3 months through the right channels........he got ignored and made his feelings known on the forum.

 

Jan 21 2011 thread "getting answers from staff"  Vatsim uk forum.

 

As  usual with "complaints" on Vatsim forums the attack dogs turn on the  the member who dared to raise anything negative, and despite it being after 2200 hrs in the UK.....3 of the 4 staff  members who couldn't be bothered to reply to the original poster over 3 months all managed to post on the thread within 26 minutes.

 

The usual way of dealing with negative remarks/ reviews on Vatsim or complaints or even moaning is to avoid the point being raised and make the original poster seem ungrateful for what voulunteers do for free in their own time.

 

dozens and dozens of threads over the years, the forums are riddled with the original thread starter made out as being ungrateful/uncaring/rude.

 

Its the way the empires deal with things.

Edited by polk2
censorship

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I mostly fly offline, however I did try Vatsim once. Just as a test I took my C172 out for a couple of circuits in Canberra when there was good coverage in the area.

I must say I had quite an enjoyable experience. There were a few bigger airplanes approaching the area as well as some weather just off the airport. Hearing real people makes a massive difference for even things like weather. The controller was quick to update me on wind changes and where the precip was heading during my circuits which never happens offline.

However, I never flew on Vatsim again because I never seem to find the right time when there is coverage for an area I like to fly in, and I mostly fly GA. I don't know about the logistics of it but I must agree with a lot of posters here and say that it would be for the benefit of us all if there was only one system. We are a large community but it's not large enough to start segregating it. In this capitalist world we need to remember the passion for aviation is why we are all here otherwise all this would have died with FSX. I feel like businessmen have taken over our community.. 😐

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10 hours ago, RancidViper said:

. I feel like businessmen have taken over our community.. 😐

In a way that's not necessarily a bad thing.   The problem is, not everyone, on principle,  would pay for something that has been provided for free for so long , which divides the community still further.

Mass consumption of anything will always create commercial opportunity for someone - and with mass consumption comes increased demand for quality - which of course comes at a price. 

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Below is one of the reasons i gave up with ATC, whether it be the default one or a purchased one.

 

You can see how far i have to deviate off track to get around these thunderstorms.

 

If i had asked RC4 to deviate that far off track, the program would have imploded.

 

So i found a freeware program whereby i can play real ATC through the headset (through LiveATC)

and i enjoy that far more. I can listen to the real boys and girls go at it while having the freedom to

deviate and conduct other procedures at will.

 

star_1.png

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On 10/4/2018 at 7:46 AM, Holdit said:

The one time I tried it I got a controller who needed to be taken out the back. I never tried it after that although I often looked at VatMap(?) to see what controllers were active - but there never were where I wanted to fly, and the idea of typing CTAF message always seemed ridiculous to me.

PilotEdge looks a lot more tempting and I might still sign up, but there's the coverage problem, and for me it's a bit of an outlay to commit to every month. Not a huge amount on its own, granted, but when you add it to your other monthly subscriptions...

Poscon looks very interesting, though , and I'll be keeping an eye on developments, but for now I'm offline only and I'll tolerate the default ATC for VFR or use Radar Contact for IFR.

 

 

Have you given the two week trial a try?  At least you might be able to tell if it was worth it.  I'd recommend socal region for starters.  I actually don't use both regions but have been flying since it's inception

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|Ryan Butterworth|

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Hello, I am a recreational pilot in RL and tried VATSIM many years ago but dropped it quickly as life got in the way.

I have returned to FSX to keep my hand in whilst the WX is carp here in the UK and for fun.

Well I have to say, the sound quality and lack of clear speech from the VATSIM controllers is appaling, it seems to be a combination of the software in use and the controllers rushing their instructions and not completing words (you know that modern day tendancy to start a word clearly and let the second half fade into muffled obscurity)

 

Despite the complications Real life ATC communication is for the most part far far clearer.

 

 

Hugely dissapointing and for me it negates the whole reason to connect to VATSIM and I find it hard to understand that an organisation that takes itself so seriously performs so poorly...I very much doubt I'll continue with it, it's honestly that bad.

 

P.S, it's not a problem with end users equipment as TeamSpeak and other VOIP systems seem to be able to produce clarity, It's a software/controller problem

Edited by Pathfinder

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18 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

Hello, I am a recreational pilot in RL and tried VATSIM many years ago but dropped it quickly as life got in the way.

I have returned to FSX to keep my hand in whilst the WX is carp here in the UK and for fun.

Well I have to say, the sound quality and lack of clear speech from the VATSIM controllers is appaling, it seems to be a combination of the software in use and the controllers rushing their instructions and not completing words (you know that modern day tendancy to start a word clearly and let the second half fade into muffled obscurity)

 

Despite the complications Real life ATC communication is for the most part far far clearer.

 

 

Hugely dissapointing and for me it negates the whole reason to connect to VATSIM and I find it hard to understand that an organisation that takes itself so seriously performs so poorly...I very much doubt I'll continue with it, it's honestly that bad.

 

P.S, it's not a problem with end users equipment as TeamSpeak and other VOIP systems seem to be able to produce clarity, It's a software/controller problem

They try, there are bandwidth issues with communications these day.  Air traffic control came around out of fear of airports and the movement of pilots before civil aviation was developed, because sadly the first bright idea they came up with less than two decades after the aircraft was created was to put a gun on it.  We know what went on in WWI, instead of armies fighting their leader's petty issues and landgrabs, they started bombing and bombs do not care who they hit--hence the word I hate, "Collateral damage".  Maybe one day the world will realize that without the "Collateral", there will be no world but my hopes are not set high.  I think that is why we older folks just throw in the towel and let ourselves finally accept aging, because we do not want to see childsplay over what was supposed to be a means of Transportation. 

It reminds me of the movie "The Fly" which was about a transport device.  Almost perfect but the insects got in and micromanaged their "superman", which is what I feel is happening with air travel and travel in general.  It just seems that the purpose of flying (I feel), tourism is becoming passe and the civilians are the hated while the military controls our airspace. 

All one has to do is pull up a flying chart and see where the military tests their latest weapons, and I live near Luke.  Restricted airspace all over the west, land that could be used for new cities, and the housing our country badly needs for its growing population.

That said, I know I live in the US, the US has its enemies, and if they are threatening our airspace, because that is what we are trying to prevent, bombs falling on our heads, then we should do as Jeff Goldblum suggested in Independence Day--take them out, send them a virus, pry into their nanosystems like they pry into ours. 

I have leaned towards conservatism as I have gotten older because being a liberal pilot means being a bold, careless pilot, and that is how I lead my own life now, without the carelessness I had in my youth.  Most young folks evolve that way so in a way I still have hope for our future, it just takes me a long time to explain it and I know some fear it, simply because it is an unknown. 

Flying, Vatsim, ATC is all about communication without a wrench being thrown in the works, like an irate passenger who has had too many drinks, those passengers are dangerous because they fear the flight for some reason.  To this day, people fear flying because we do not have wings, but our dreams do rest on the wings of Eagles, those who came out of the war, like it is said in "An Officer and a Gentleman" to use their military ticket to go to work for the airlines.  Those are the people I want up front, with gentle guidance from the ground....

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23 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

Well I have to say, the sound quality and lack of clear speech from the VATSIM controllers is appaling, it seems to be a combination of the software in use and the controllers rushing their instructions and not completing words (you know that modern day tendancy to start a word clearly and let the second half fade into muffled obscurity)

 

Despite the complications Real life ATC communication is for the most part far far clearer.

VATSIM is in the process of developing new voice codecs, which do sound significantly better.  

https://www.vatsim.net/news/audio-vatsim-large-scale-testing-announced

https://blog.vatsim.net/index.php/posts/something-new

Edited by ErichB
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Surprised to see only 9% primarily use IVAO.

IVAO's where it's at lads.

Always has been.

Only thing I wish was better are the aircraft models

Edited by markngx
Not AI models

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What I always find interesting in these discussions is the hard and fast assumption that any solution to the problem of flight sim ATC has to be either virtual online ATC or a constructive (DOD parlance) automated AI program (e.g. Radar Contact, Pro-ATC/X, PF3, Pilot2ATC etc).  We limit ourselves by presuming it has to be either one or the other.  I've said this before numerous times over the years, and it always seems to fall on deaf ears where it counts--what we really need is a hybrid ATC system that combines the benefits and capabilities of both types of systems.

The reality is there are simply not enough trained controllers to man a planet-wide ATC system, and probably never will be.  Time zone effects also impose restrictions on availability windows of ATC far from your local area.  What would really mitigate the most common complaint amongst users (lack of coverage) is the ability to transition smoothly between virtual online control where it's available, and constructive (AI) control where it's not.  Right now, even if you find a route that's all or mostly covered by virtual online ATC, it's very likely not going to remain that way for the duration of a flight more than an hour long.  What'd be neat is the ability to depart from a field in an uncontrolled area under constructive/AI control, fly into controlled airspace and transition from AI to virtual online ATC via an automated handoff.  Or vice versa...

I've been experimenting with using a computer-generated artificial saved flight using Radar Contact to be able to get RC4 to pick up where VATSIM leaves off if I were to depart under online control, and then transition to RC after flying out of coverage.  The opposite is easier...you can set up RC4 for a flight and just shut it off when entering a controlled terminal area.  Automating it to make a flight plan filed in one system feed automatically to the other is an elusive goal at present, but if such a system were actually embraced and designed to work that way, rather than as a hacked interface between the two, it'd open up a ton of possibilities.

But, alas, that intransigent "not invented here" pushback and/or indifference prevails.  Maybe someday...

 

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Bob Scott | AVSIM Forums Administrator | AVSIM Board of Directors
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