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Shomron

Current thoughts on ATC programs

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2 minutes ago, Woozie said:

You cant change SID/STAR dynamically once you started your flight.  

Do any of the ATC addons allow for that? It can be annoying to do a long flight, the wind shifts before you get there, and then you have to figure out workarounds to ATC so you can land on the correct runway.

 

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3 minutes ago, Woozie said:

You cant change SID/STAR dynamically once you started your flight. 

It largely depends on how you set your flight plan in PF3. Best practice for PF3 is to exclude any SID/STAR waypoints apart from the SID exit and the STAR entry.

So the goal of this function is to actually help with the flexibility issue I've raised? This allows you to actually maneuver as much as possible on your own letting you depart any runway you want/ set a general approach course which will fit as many runways as possible in the DEST airport?

Is the way-point exclusion actually done in the Adjust Altitudes, SIDs, STARs and Holds for Selected Flight Plan screen? 

8 minutes ago, Woozie said:

If you included all STAR waypoints in your flightplan, PF3 will vector you to the FAF (set by the FAF distance value in PF3 options) of the active runway once you passed the last waypoint of the STAR if you didn't request vectors manually during approach. 

But if I defined the FAF to be 7 miles out and the last way-point is 15 miles downwind won't PF3 override the STAR route and create a shortcut (by giving me vectors) to intercept the FAF earlier?

 

Thanks for the help!


Shom

 

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Just now, eslader said:

Do any of the ATC addons allow for that? It can be annoying to do a long flight, the wind shifts before you get there, and then you have to figure out workarounds to ATC so you can land on the correct runway.

 

I can only speak for ProATC-X, as i have no experience with other ATC addons apart from PF3. 

ProATC-X will assign another STAR if weather changes force a different landing runway that doesnt allow the STAR you originally set. You can also manually request a STAR for any landing runway that is available for the current weather, based on a cross and tailwind profile you set for the aircraft you are flying. If the wind situation for a certain runway is outside of these limits, it wont be selectable. 

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On 10/4/2018 at 1:26 PM, pracines said:

I've been using RC since RC3 was released. I intend to stick with it, until some company comes up with a better solution for me or it becomes incompatible with P3D.

PATC/X includes a planner which I already have and don't need to pay for all over again. Plus, I don't like when companies restrict the public from their forums - it tells me that they don't have the time or they have much to hide.  

I tried PFE but there is just too much set up for me (like planning a single flight twice) - "I'd rather be flying". Dave March is great though; having an excellent concept, essentially alone, and managing a huge project quite well.

I have been considering P2ATC but again, extra features that I already have, plus yes, them voices can get expensive. 

I think many are looking for just an ATC controller utility that can read a flight plan, and be worldwide, complete, adaptable, and realistic for us and the AI around us....sounds simple enough😃

All of these ATC utilities have their strength and weaknesses - just like the flight sims we have available to us, its too bad we can't have a product that combines all the good features into one. PFE with worldwide voice accents, PATC/x with its ability to assign sids/stars on the fly w/o intervention (I can do the same using NOTAMS in RC4 with a little intervention), RC4 for its essential options, simplicity, and stability, P2ATC for voice clarity ect ect...we want it all!😇   

I am so bummed v5 got never finished, it would have been the bee's knees. I've tried pretty much all of them except VoxATX and they're all c*ap. Anyone who says that RC's voices are robotic needs to get their ears checked. I'm also sticking with RC until something revolutionary gets released.

Edited by Drumcode
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12 minutes ago, eslader said:

Do any of the ATC addons allow for that? It can be annoying to do a long flight, the wind shifts before you get there, and then you have to figure out workarounds to ATC so you can land on the correct runway.

 

With PF3 with one keystroke you just ask for the runway you want to land on. You just select the Star that is approriate for the desired runway, if there is one. Other than that just ask for vectors. 


 

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3 minutes ago, Shomron said:

So the goal of this function is to actually help with the flexibility issue I've raised? This allows you to actually maneuver as much as possible on your own letting you depart any runway you want/ set a general approach course which will fit as many runways as possible in the DEST airport?

Is the way-point exclusion actually done in the Adjust Altitudes, SIDs, STARs and Holds for Selected Flight Plan screen? 

But if I defined the FAF to be 7 miles out and the last way-point is 15 miles downwind won't PF3 override the STAR route and create a shortcut (by giving me vectors) to intercept the FAF earlier?

 

Thanks for the help!

The OP was asking about ProATC-X, we shouldnt derail this thread any further or its going to be locked soon 😉 Better create a new thread if you any further questions about PF3.

You cant delete waypoints in PF3, you would have to exclude procedure waypoints when you create your FPL in your favorite flightplanner. 
Dont know about your second question though, i never had this situation when using PF3

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1 minute ago, Woozie said:

The OP was asking about ProATC-X, we shouldnt derail this thread any further or its going to be locked soon 😉 Better create a new thread if you any further questions about PF3.

You cant delete waypoints in PF3, you would have to exclude procedure waypoints when you create your FPL in your favorite flightplanner. 
Dont know about your second question though, i never had this situation when using PF3

You can bypass any waypoint by asking for a direct to the next waypoint. Why are you spreading misinformation?  Check 9.5 in the User manual. 

 


 

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3 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

You can bypass any waypoint by asking for a direct to the next waypoint. Why are you spreading misinformation?  Check 9.5 in the User manual. 

 

Bob, i stated that you can't delete a waypoint in PF3, i wasnt saying anything about skipping waypoints. Better work on your reading comprehension rather than falsely accusing me of spreading misinformation

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47 minutes ago, eslader said:

Do any of the ATC addons allow for that? It can be annoying to do a long flight, the wind shifts before you get there, and then you have to figure out workarounds to ATC so you can land on the correct runway.

 

Default ATC you can select any STAR from the menu. Provided it is in your ADE file as an RNAV transition.

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I am interested in ProATC-X  as well, but unfortunately there is no Demo and 50 Euros is 80-90 $Can, a lot of money for uncertainty.

Strange that there is none.

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On 10/5/2018 at 4:05 AM, DChockey08 said:

I liked ProATC and used it for a bit, but didn't like the quality of the voices. Way too robotic. I did love how it set up the SIDsSTARs dynamically based on winds. 

I reverted to PF3 for a while because IMO that has the best sounding voices but the problem with PF3 is 1. It takes way too long to set up and 2. There's no dynamic STAR change, which is kind of weird if you're on a 14 hour flight and you've already decided your STAR prior to departure. 

Ultimately my favorite default ATC paired with requesting transitions on RNAV approaches which allows you to fly STARs and use ATC. Easiest to set up and quickest to get going. It's a little known feature of FSX/P3D. Everyone says "default ATC doesn't support STARs" but there is a workaround. You can fly an assigned star as long as the ADE file has it configured as an RNAV approach transition and request it when ATC begins to vector you.

Do you use ADE to check that ? Might try it

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Wow Bob certainly missed the point on the altitude instructions. Correct me if i'm wrong but i'm pretty sure ATC instructions take precedence over everything else. So if you're flying a STAR and ATC gives you an instruction that differs from the STAR, you are supposed to follow it. IRL there could be many reasons for the deviation. These are not all simulated inside P3D but I don't think it's good practice to ignore ATC instructions.

The problem lies within the programs themselves which occasionally give incorrect altitudes and headings that end up with you bee lining for the nearest mountain. I have had this experience occasionally with previous versions of Pro Atc. Not for awhile though.

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ok guys - let's stay on topic and stop sniping at each other or this one goes.

 

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17 hours ago, eslader said:

Do any of the ATC addons allow for that? It can be annoying to do a long flight, the wind shifts before you get there, and then you have to figure out workarounds to ATC so you can land on the correct runway.

 

ProATC does it. Without you having to do anything about it. That's why I prefer ProATC: the ease of use and ATC does what it should do (unlike some other products where in fact you have to do ATC's job before you can even start to fly). No need to configure SIDs and STARs and altitudes because everything is being taken from the Navigraph data. It couldn't be more simple. Now I only fly short domestic flights so I seldom get a change of weather but a while ago I didn't like the weather AS was giving me (way too much wind) so I changed the weather to historic during my flight. I was very happy to see ProATC assigned a different STAR (and of course approach) to me all by itself! Now THAT'S what I like!

And as I said before you don't have to decide upfront if you want to actually use a SID or STAR or not because you can always ask for a direct to and skip whatever you want.

I have to add though, in all honesty, that ProATC isn't perfect: sometimes (thought seldom) I can't contact the controller I have to contact without switching radio's a few times, sometimes I suddenly get vectored somewhere because ProATC thought I was flying towards another waypoint (usually after I asked for a Direct to: this problem is solved though by asking a Direct to again), sometimes it let's me fly a bit too high... usually all these little things can be solved on the fly (by using requests) but well, it's not perfect. But I wonder what ATC addon is. 😉 Then again, it helps you to stay focused LOL!

Another thing I like is the information screen you can popup (Simconnect) with all needed info, like which waypoint is active according to ProATC, which radio freq should be set (and which one currently is), assigned SID and STAR and approach (plus transitions, runways), even the transition altitude is shown: all in all very convenient accesible from within the sim without the need for a huge panel (or having to switch to the addon itself).

EDIT
Here is a screenshot showing ProATC's information window after getting clearance and before switching to ground. Take note that the approach is an expected one: it may change along the way.

 

2018_10_6_13_43_23_773.jpg

Edited by Guest

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On 10/5/2018 at 11:04 PM, helberger said:

I am interested in ProATC-X  as well, but unfortunately there is no Demo and 50 Euros is 80-90 $Can, a lot of money for uncertainty.

Strange that there is none.

I agree wholeheartedly. It seems crazy to me too. I'm sure they will lose many potential customers by not doing so 😐

Edited by Rockliffe

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