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48 minutes ago, Holdit said:

So is the default FSX 737. The iFly is much more than this, though.

While that is true, isn't that a bit going to the extreme? Feature wise you really can't compare them! The default FSX 737 and the iFly/PMDG? Huh? Jeez... 

It's all a matter of personal choice. I'd agree with @w6kd. You get what you pay for. The iFly is enjoyable and fun (I own both products) but IMHO, the PMDG is just a class better. It's a more refined and detailed product and you can feel it, when you enter the flight-deck. There's an atmosphere which is unparalleled, in my opinion. When I return to flying the 737NGX, I'm always amazed and in awe of what PMDG has accomplished with this plane.

I experience the same discussion, when people compare the Aerosoft Airbus A320 with the FSLabs A320-X. Yes, they both model an Airbus A320. But the depth, atmosphere, sound environment and details are just so much better in the FSLabs, in my humble opinion. Yes, there's quite a price difference - but you really do get what you paid for! 

I have tried the iFly version, and while you do get more 'bang-for-your-buck', because of more models, I just don't get the same sensation and feeling when flying it. It's hard to describe. There's just something in the modelling, textures and details in the iFly, which just isn't matched, when looking to the PMDG, IMO. I also found the iFly 737NG version to be heavier on performance, than the PMDG 737NGX.  

Personally there's no doubt in my mind what I would choose. But then again, I'm a huge fan of PMDG's work and abilities ... so perhaps, I'm not totally impartial.

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7 minutes ago, Anders Bermann said:

While that is true, isn't that a bit going to the extreme? Feature wise you really can't compare them! The default FSX 737 and the iFly/PMDG? Huh? Jeez...

That was exactly my point. Even the phrase "fun and flyable", while by no means a criticism, doesn't come close to doing justice to what iFly achieved with that product.

 

8 minutes ago, Anders Bermann said:

It's all a matter of personal choice. I'd agree with @w6kd. You get what you pay for. The iFly is enjoyable and fun (I own both products) but IMHO, the PMDG is just a class better. It's a more refined and detailed product and you can feel it, when you enter the flight-deck. There's an atmosphere which is unparalleled, in my opinion. When I return to flying the 737NGX, I'm always amazed and in awe of what PMDG has accomplished with this plane.

I agree.

8 minutes ago, Anders Bermann said:

I experience the same discussion, when people compare the Aerosoft Airbus A320 with the FSLabs A320-X. Yes, they both model an Airbus A320. But the depth, atmosphere, sound environment and details are just so much better in the FSLabs, in my humble opinion. Yes, there's quite a price difference - but you really do get what you paid for! 

I agree, except that I think the iFly 737 is closer to the PMDG 737 in terms of system modelling than the Aerosoft A320 is to the FSLABS version, but I wouldn't dismiss the Aerosoft Bus as a toy either. I have both, and I was happy - and surprised -  to see that my liking for the FSLABS version did not make me dislike the Aersoft version.

 

11 minutes ago, Anders Bermann said:

I have tried the iFly version, and while you do get more 'bang-for-your-buck', because of more models, I just don't get the same sensation and feeling when flying it. It's hard to describe. There's just something in the modelling, textures and details in the iFly, which just isn't matched, when looking to the PMDG, IMO.

I agree. The PMDG is at the top of the heap without a doubt. But to listen to some of the PMDG faithful, you would think that there are two types of aircraft add-on: PMDG and "toys". This not only unjustifiably dismissive of other developers, it makes for bad advice for someone who is weighing up their purchasing options.

 

13 minutes ago, Anders Bermann said:

Personally there's no doubt in my mind what I would choose. But then again, I'm a huge fan of PMDG's work and abilities ... so perhaps, I'm not totally impartial.

Fair play to you for acknowledging as much. I also have great respect for PMDG's achievements and abilities - I only own the NGX*, but I've never for one moment regretting buying it. I have the iFly too, and was pleasantly surprised at its depth, which is why I think people are wrong to dismiss it as airily as I've often seen being done. 

 

*If they ever get their act together with the J41 and P3Dv4, I might well own two...

 

 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, SierraHotel said:

+1 Once PMDG have updated it with Rainmaker and added the Global Flight Operations there really will be nothing to touch it.



Would you mind providing a link/source to support your 'word not allowed' supposition'?  Rainmaker is exclusive to the P3D platform; thus, I doubt it will make its way into any FSX variant.  Moreover, while we know PMDG makes amazing aircraft, we also know they're not shy about charging premium prices, again and again and again...  To that end, I doubt they'll push their latest technology into their current 737 product; after all, they need to compel customers to pay full price...AGAIN.  If you consider their current pricing/marking strategies, it's difficult to fathom Rainmaker, or any other significant advancements, making their way into the current 737. Again, they'll need 'justification' to compel us to pay full price on their new 737. 

While I freely admit the PMDG 737 is the superior aircraft (I love it), it's absurd not to consider the iFLY 737. If you consider pricing, the iFLY may represent the far better value.  Specifically, the OP is a current FSX owner, lets consider what it would cost him to move to P3D in a few years:

PMDG

FSX base = $69.99 (737NGX 800/900)
FSX exp = $24.99 (737NGX 600/700)
P3D base = $89.99
P3D exp = $24.99

Total Cost = $209.96

iFLY

iFLY base = $54.95 (737-600/700/700ER/800/900/900ER/BBJ/BBJ2/BBJ3)
P3D upgrade = $27.48 (737-600/700/700ER/800/900/900ER/BBJ/BBJ2/BBJ3)

Total Cost = $82.43

Even if the OP decided to stay with FSX, you're still talking about $94.98 vs $54.95 price gap, assuming the latter was purchased at full price.  Unlike PMDG, iFly does offer periodic discounts. 

So, while  I fully recognize that PMDG is the superior product, I scuff at the notion that it's 172% and/or 55% better.  However, I will credit PMDG for their marketing strategy; they've been able to charge absurd prices while simultaneously making us believe it's 'necessary.'  Interesting considering others in the same marketspace charge 55% less for similar products...

To be clear, I'm not suggesting the OP stay away from PMDG, on the contrary, their 777 remains my favorite aircraft of all time (nearly beating my beloved LD767); nevertheless, what I am suggesting is he/she consider alternatives based on their finical situation and application of 'Total Utility.' iFLY has talented developers and a solid support system; they may not possess PMDG marketing prowess, but they do make fine simulations.  They should be considered...

Edited by kingm56
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4 minutes ago, kingm56 said:

Moreover, while we know PMDG makes amazing aircraft, we also know they're not shy about gouging their customers.  To that end, I doubt they'll push their latest technology into aircraft currently under development; after all, they need to compel customers to pay full price...AGAIN. 

LOL - I'm sorry but what are you talking about??? Either you're trolling or you have a major misconception about how PMDG runs their business!!

Are you seriously suggesting, that PMDG deliberately holds back features and technology, in order to sell more products and/or to make more people upgrade to the next product?! I cannot fathom how you draw the conclusions you do, but if you're meaning, that PMDG just controls the pricing strategies for the whole Fligthsim community, I really think you need a reality check.

Whether or not PMDG's products if ridiculously is ridiculously priced, is you own personal and subjective opinion. Please refrain from stating such claims as facts.

Sorry for ranting, but this post, just got me off the edge... 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Anders Bermann said:

LOL - I'm sorry but what are you talking about??? Either you're trolling or you have a major misconception about how PMDG runs their business!!

Are you seriously suggesting, that PMDG deliberately holds back features and technology, in order to sell more products and/or to make more people upgrade to the next product?! I cannot fathom how you draw the conclusions you do, but if you're meaning, that PMDG just controls the pricing strategies for the whole Fligthsim community, I really think you need a reality check.

Whether or not PMDG's products if ridiculously is ridiculously priced, is you own personal and subjective opinion. Please refrain from stating such claims as facts.

Sorry for ranting, but this post, just got me off the edge... 

Anders,

No need to apologize, Anders; let's just have a discussion, without bias. 

Yes, I believe PMDG won't push Rainmaker, or any other MAJOR advancement, into the current 737. If they improve this product, it would compete against their future 737.  Why do you find this notion so alien? It's actually a pretty standard COA; however, you, and several posters of your ilk, believe PMDG are our 'friends', who wish to do nothing more than contribute to our community. Thus, I don't believe you comprehend the business aspects of their strategy.  Of course, you could quickly dispel my notion by providing evidence that PMDG plans to push RainMaker into their 737.  As always, I'm ready to receive and consider new information.

Concerning your second supposition, I don't know how you could possibly derive that conclusion from my post.  I, in NO way, suggested PMDG drives pricing for the entire Flt Sim community. In fact, I suggested just the opposite; specifically, that PMDG is operating in contrast to other key players in the Flt Sim market.  They are, in a way, positioning themselves to be the Rolls Royce of the Flight Sim Community.  As you can see from the sanctimonious attitudes displayed in this thread, it appears to be working.  Perhaps it's not I who needs a reality check, but you.  Let me provide some tangible examples:

PMDG 747 V2 = $54.99 on par with similar products

PMDG MD-11 = 74.99 slightly higher (12%) than similar products (LD767)

PMDG 737 FSX = 69.99 + 24.99 = $94.98 (55% higher than similar products/iFLY)

PMDG 777 P3D = $134.99 + 69.99 = $164.98 (189% increase over similar products)

PMDG 748 P3D = $139.99 + 69.99 = $209.98 (350% increase over similar products/iFLY)

These pricing escalations are based on a defined strategy and not predicated on any inflation/CPI. Indeed, we were given reasons, which we're precluded from discussing via this forum; however, said reasons don't seem to impact other major flight simulator developers.  If you wish to see these types of escalations, then by all means, burry your head in the sand and continue with phrases like "please pmdg, take my wallet" or "my credit card is ready."  As a community, we should be demanding better....

Edited by kingm56
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Anders Bermann said:

Are you seriously suggesting, that PMDG deliberately holds back features and technology, in order to sell more products and/or to make more people upgrade to the next product?

I don't know if PMDG does that and I don't care if they do. But I have been to mayor worldwide companies R&D facilities and have seen just that.

Anyway, If I ever go back to tube flying I will probably get the iFly737-MAX (expected release 2020)

Edited by RamonB
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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, RamonB said:

I don't know if PMDG does that and I don't care if they do. But I have been to mayor worldwide companies R&D facilities and have seen just that.

Anyway, If I ever go back to tube flying I will probably bet the iFly737-MAX (expected release 2020)

Its actually pretty standard in every segment, Ramon.  For example, in the car industry, certain options are precluded from cheaper cars in an effort to entice consumers to buy more expensive options.  For example, Subaru won't place a turbo in the BRZ; if they did so, it would directly compete against the much more expensive WRX.  Again, this pretty standard operating procedures; to that point, I don't begrudge PMDG from employing said tactics.  My opposition was directed at posters disseminating disinformation to bolster one company, while simultaneously berating another. 

Edited by kingm56
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Well since this thread has offered an number of options which go beyond the scope of the OP's original inquiry, I'll add another option. X-Plane 11 comes with a 737NG which is not a contended of itself when compared to the NGX but there is a freeware Mod called the ZIBO Mod and I can tell you after installing that MOD for me It was very much akin to the NGX and in fact I preferred it because I had to eat my words about flight dynamic once I took the time and spent the money on X-Plane 11. I have no payware for X-plane 11 and it is IMO specifically the better option for the 737NG. One caveat, I am no anorak when it comes to systems. No offense to the anorak's! 😁

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I think it all boils down to what the OP means by "training". While I won't judge the extent to which either PMDG or iFly contribute to "training" I can say that I own them both and have over 50 hours in a Southwest 737-700 Level-D simulator. To my mind the iFly, as compared the the PMDG, comes no where near the "feel" or the systems function/complexity of the real thing. I have no doubt that, for anyone serious about 737's, the only choice is PMDG. Just MNSHO and all mileage is, of course, variable...............Doug

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Posted (edited)

I'm building a full scale 737 simulator.  My options were ifly, which offers a cockpit builders edition for cheap change of $500, PMDG, which has no builder options, or Pro-Sim which is $1600.  Of the three, if you want full scale simulator quality, Pro-Sim simulated every aspect of the 737, multiple computer compatibility, all features simulated all for a price.  Next is I-Fly, multi-computer compatible, majority of systems simulated for about a third of the price, and PMDG, which requires another software for multi-computer compatibility, similar systems simulated, and about the same price of pro-sim.

It really depends on what level you want to go with for training purposes. 

For me, since building the simulator is a significant expense, I went with I-Fly.  I can enjoy it on my temporary setup AND use it in my cockpit.  Someday when I want to bump the realism up a bit more I'll be skipping over PMDG and go straight to Pro-Sim.

With the recent release of the HD pack for the iFly, the differences between PMDG and iFly are not significant enough to warrant significant more expense.

Edited by jlohrenz
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6 hours ago, W2DR said:

I think it all boils down to what the OP means by "training". While I won't judge the extent to which either PMDG or iFly contribute to "training" I can say that I own them both and have over 50 hours in a Southwest 737-700 Level-D simulator. To my mind the iFly, as compared the the PMDG, comes no where near the "feel" or the systems function/complexity of the real thing. I have no doubt that, for anyone serious about 737's, the only choice is PMDG. Just MNSHO and all mileage is, of course, variable...............Doug

Agree 100%. IFly isn’t even in the same ball park as PMDG in anything. Not even the same planet. IFly remind me of Carenado. All show and no go. 

 

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3 hours ago, Raging Bull said:

. IFly remind me of CarenadoAll show and no go

 

That's your argument? A catchphrase? How disappointing....but not very surprising, and certainly not to be taken seriously.

Oh, just out of curiosity, can we have that link to the freeware that's better than iFly? 😉

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On 10/4/2018 at 12:45 PM, XLS_DRiver said:

I'm looking to get a payware 737 for FSX Steam, and wondering which one seems to be the best, in terms of realistic behaviour, detail, and functionality. My use is for training purposes.

 

Thanks in advance.

SO which did you choose? The realistic and only decent version of the 737 by PMDG?

Or the trash version IFly?

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2 hours ago, Raging Bull said:

Or the trash version IFly?

On that note, I think the OPs question has been answered enough before the thread drifts further south.

In the future, let’s point out the strengths and weakness of addons before we demean other developers work as “trash”. 

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