JoeFackel

Massive FPS drop with injected AI Planes

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

Hello wisdom of the crowd,

do you know of a tool where i can see a complete list of the AI planes active in the 3D world? I have an massive stutter anytime a new AI plane is spawning in the 3D world and i have to further investigate if its maybe an defective AI model inducing this massive momentary framedrop (from stable 20s down to 3 or less) followed by an stutter.

Thx in advance.

Edited by cmpbellsjc
Edited title per OP request

Share this post


Link to post
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

Ehm, such a list is entirely depending on what AI traffic you use. If you installed it yourself, you should actually know where the AI traffic models reside inside your folder structure. And you could check those with several freeware tools available for P3D compatibility.

As you use UTLive, I would start off with checking the UTLive models. Did you add any additional AI model yourself? If not, I doubt that UTLive has any incompatible model, but maybe others know this better...

Share this post


Link to post

Maybe i wasn't clear enough. Of course i know about the custom AI planes and liveries collected by myself. I need a tool which can read the AI planes active in the sim. With Little nav map i can see the planes and the amount of the ai planes but i don't see which has been added in the 3D world just yet, if i could see this i can identify the 3D model and replace it.

At EDDF i've literally NO UTL stock AI aircraft because i've added around 160 custom flightplans with the updated 3D models from TFS, FSP and so on.

Share this post


Link to post

And you are sure that none of those "updated" models you added yourself is the culprit? And what's about this "3D Sounds" in your signature? Was this designed for P3D?

With AiAircraftTweaker from Lorby-SI you can check each of your AI models if they are designed at least with MDLX. MDL9 or older would be an incompatible FS9 model, but also there I am no expert, sorry.

Share this post


Link to post

Hi,

the P3D SDK still has the Traffic Toolbox.

  1. Download and install the SDK (the add-on.xml below assumes that the SDK is in its default location)
  2. In "C:\Users\...\Documents\Prepar3D v4 Add-ons\" create a folder "\TrafficToolbox\"
  3. In that folder create this add-on.xml file (C:\Users\...\Documents\Prepar3D v4 Add-ons\TrafficToolbox\add-on.xml):
Quote

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<SimBase.Document Type="AddOnXml" version="4,0" id="add-on">
  <AddOn.Name>TrafficToolbox</AddOn.Name>
  <AddOn.Description />
  <AddOn.Component>
    <Category>DLL</Category>
    <Path>C:\Program Files\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4 SDK 4.3.29.25520\World\Traffic\TrafficToolbox.dll</Path>
    <Name>TrafficToolbox</Name>
  </AddOn.Component>
</SimBase.Document>

 

After starting the sim you will find the Traffic Toolbox it in the "Tools" menu.

Best regards

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
16 hours ago, Lorby_SI said:

the P3D SDK still has the Traffic Toolbox.

Thx for that hint, the toolbox helped me a lot.

Looks like my P3D has a problem with new AI models as the fps drop occurs only with my updated AI models and much lesser with UTL stock models.

Share this post


Link to post

I doubt that the new AI models per se are a issue, it is most probably one of those models, maybe two, or some missing textures, wrong textures or whatever. I would really thoroughly check all your AI planes for proper models, proper textures and correct aircraft.cfg's. With the tools mentioned above, this will take some time, but it is worth it.

Share this post


Link to post

... and don't forget the Content Error Log in P3D, which will show you most of the obvious errors, like missing effects, missing sounds, errors in aircraft.cfgs etc.

In my experience, missing files can have quite the impact on the FPS, because the sim starts to search through every folder that could contain the missing file (effects and sounds are worse than textures IMO). Also, the complexity of the aircraft is a big factor. Animated doors, flaps, controls surfaces, complex lighting will all be a challenge for the sim, because it is simulating all of that on AI too.

Best regards

Share this post


Link to post

Maybe I am not understanding your question, but could this be helpful?  https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/543335-list-of-ai-planes

Share this post


Link to post

Sorry about that I posted the wrong link. Here is the right one. https://www.alpha-india.net/forums/index/.php?topic=28170.0

Share this post


Link to post

Does TrafficLook work with 64 bit FSUIPC5? I could never get it to show its main window.

Share this post


Link to post

First, thx to all for your input, i learned a lot about troubleshooting again!

Second, a small intermediate report:
i've cleaned my custom AI database and made some addtional tests. After checking the contenterror log i've fixed serveral problems. The stutters are still there when UTL injects a new AI into the sim but it looks like the stutters are bit shorter than before. No missing textures or old models or repaints, i tried it soley with the custom DLH AI traffic i made, this AI models and repaints are all the latest ones P3D native models and mipped DDS textures that are available.
It also doesn't matter if the injected AI is spawned 40 nm away or on the aiport, if its enroute or "sleeping", the fps drop is the same.

There is still something to check, as soon as i've completed the test i will report. Until then i'm grateful for any new hint you guys can give me.

Share this post


Link to post
29 minutes ago, JoeFackel said:

stutters are still there when UTL injects a new AI into the sim

That IMHO is pretty normal. UTL injects the aircraft using SimConnect, and generating new SimObjects through the API always leads to stutters. How bad they are depends mostly on how many and how complex these objects are, and of course on what else your simulator is currently doing and how high system load is in general.

I have had the same behavior since the old days, it was the same with UT2. Every time I got close enough to a major hub which tiggered  higher-than-normal number of new AI, the system would stutter, sometimes pretty badly. 

Also, some of my other products are very sensitive to fluctuations in the frame rate, and they show these stutters in an exaggerated fashion - that is how I think that know their cause. It is not only with AI either, most of my products create or remove all kinds of SimObjects in the sim programmatically, and that always exhibits the same stutters.

You may be chasing an issue here that can't be fixed. YMMV

Best regards

 

Edited by Lorby_SI

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

You may be chasing an issue here that can't be fixed.

Of course that may be the case. But i'm still very confident there i something i may have overlooked.

My system isn't taxed out very high and for the last test i've reduced the AI traffic already to around a third than before to cushion the performance hit of new AI planes.

I still have a good faith to find the culprit and the point to surrender and let the machine win is till far 😉

 

Share this post


Link to post

 

4 minutes ago, JoeFackel said:

But i'm still very confident there i something i may have overlooked.

Just keep in mind that there always is "some degree" of stutter when injecting objects with SimConnect. That cannot be avoided.

Best regards

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, Lorby_SI said:

Just keep in mind that there always is "some degree" of stutter when injecting objects with SimConnect. That cannot be avoided.

Sure. I've seen fps drops also with the stock UTL models but they were WAY lesser then with updated models and they also induced no stutters because of the lower number.

Too give some numbers: i had around 40 AI planes in the sim active, fps were beween 17 and 20 at EDDF tower view with around 10 taxing, landing and starting planes. Than ONE plane gets injected the fps goes down to 3 or less with a stutter of estimate 0,5 secs. That seems way too much for my expression.

Share this post


Link to post
19 minutes ago, JoeFackel said:

Too give some numbers: i had around 40 AI planes in the sim active, fps were beween 17 and 20 at EDDF tower view with around 10 taxing, landing and starting planes. Than ONE plane gets injected the fps goes down to 3 or less with a stutter of estimate 0,5 secs. That seems way too much for my expression.

This could be caused by a "creation loop". If the program creating the objects is watching out for them, and the simulator decides to remove it for whatever reason (it likes to do that), you can be caught in a loop: create - exception - remove - recreate - and so on, pulling down FPS massively. This has happened to me quite often, and special care has to be taken to avoid this situation in SimConnect programming. I can't see how you could diagnose this without having UTL running in debug mode. 

If you have a specific model in mind, did you try creating the same model some other way? BGL flightplan or some other tool? I could give you an exe that will create any object that you want in the sim using SimConnect, and you can check if it really is the model causing the stutters.

Best regards

Edited by Lorby_SI
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

If you have a specific model in mind, did you try creating the same model some other way?

Not at the moment because i still have some things to try with UTL.

6 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

I could give you an exe that will create any object that you want in the sim using SimConnect, and you can check if it really is the model causing the stutters.

That would be cool, with that tool i could test the different models easily without restarting the sim countless times!!! 😃

Share this post


Link to post
15 minutes ago, JoeFackel said:

That would be cool, with that tool i could test the different models easily without restarting the sim countless times!!

Sent you a PM here in the forum.

Best regards

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, Lorby_SI said:

Sent you a PM here in the forum.

So, after another three hours with Oliver's very handy tool i have an conclusion: the problem are some textures!

Let me explain:

i opened the sim on LOWS, very few AI in the bubble (only 5 planes). I opened the aircraft.cfg from my collected A320NEO AI and placed an LH 320n on the tarmac. What, only a marginal fps hit??? I removed it again and placed the next LH320n, again just a very small hit, next LH a small hit, next A320n (this time from SAS) .... BAMM, huge fps hit down to 3.0!!!!

All other A320n i've tried (nine different liveries) take a huge hit to the fps, But they share the same models, the same aircraft.cfg and airfile with the LH liveries! I checked the files with the AIAircraft Editor, all liveries of the A320n have the same data: DDS, 2048x2048, 16-bit, Mips, Alpha, DXT5 .... so what make one texture bring my sim to its knees but not the other? Any clue?

Share this post


Link to post

Are you talking about FAIB A320N? Did you check if there is a texture.cfg inside the texture Folders? Might be, that the texture.cfg of the SAS paint redirects into nirvana and this leads to the FPS drop.

Share this post


Link to post
13 minutes ago, AnkH said:

Did you check if there is a texture.cfg inside the texture Folders?

I don't have texture.cfg in the folders as i have added shared textures via add-on.xml, i will check this in the evening.

But shouldn't i have an texture error then in the contenterror log? There are no texture errors there ....

Share this post


Link to post

Ok, bummer. Did you try to use another repaint for SAS? Or is this the only one?

Another question: you said you added LH and you did not see any FPS hit. Then you add another LH, again no FPS hit. Then you add SAS and FPS down to 3. Did you remove the two LH A320 before adding the SAS? What happens, if the SAS is the very first A320n you add? Same FPS drop?

Edited by AnkH

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now