1X 2080Ti vs. 2X 2080Ti vs. 1X TitanXP - P3D V4.3

[GSalden 4,654]

18 hours ago, YoYo said:

1x 1080Ti vs 1x 2080Ti pls :).

 

That I also would like to now.

Thank you very much for your thouroughly report !

 

Edited October 10, 2018 by GSalden

[GSalden 4,654]

Regarding multi monitor setups ( 3 views ) :

I am curious how 1 2080Ti ( 1 card - 3 monitors )  will hold against 2 1080Ti ( 1 cards - 1 monitor and 1 card - 2 monitors ).

So no SLI

[Guest]

2 hours ago, adyfoot said:

But you must be an expert on those conversations, given the amount of hardware you go through!

This is much cheaper than my prior hobby of auto racing, she is actually glad I'm settling down … however, she does give me "the eye" when I start browsing "aircraft for sale" web sites.

1 hour ago, AlphaInfinity said:

Are we not reaping the benefits in Prepare3d because we are increasing the resolution or is the graphics engine not designed or optimized to take advantage of these cards?

I don't know what "optimized" means in the context I see it used by members on AVSIM and elsewhere.  I hear that term used a lot but nobody seems to provide any details on exactly what they mean, they just compare to some other game or 3D shooter or unfinished or partial "engine" as evidence of optimization?  That doesn't say much and excludes or ignores limits found in those products being compared.  With that said, there are changes that can be made to the render pipeline but I doubt they realize massive changes in FPS.  In order to use DSLL and/or ray tracing extensions, that requires moving from DX11 to DX12 … DSLL probably has the "easiest" potential for FPS increase as it would do away the high GPU processing requirements of SSAA … and as we can see from my testing SSAA is probably the most significant graphics (in terms of FPS) settings when combined with other options (especially at 4K res). 

There are many levels of "optimization" where some will reap more benefits than others … for example in P3D AG buildings and AI traffic, road, boat tend to load up the CPU side … Trees batch well on the render side because they are simple with fewer variants.  Buildings however are more unique and have more geometry and as such increase draw calls reducing performance.  The constant loading and unloading of textures from 3rd party content … I only recently found out this can be controlled by content providers to some degree (again probably and FSX optimized due to memory limits which aren't an issue in P3D).  There are also optimizations that can be performed by 3rd party content providers which can dramatically help with performance.

There is still a HIGH degree of compatibility that is also responsible for some limitations on what can be done.  And finally, many 3rd party content providers are still using FSX tools and SDK and models in P3D … this is the big challenge, getting content providers to use and look at the P3D SDK and build their products with the P3D SDK rather than using FSX SDK and aiming for single deployment set.  It's a hard sell to go to a content provider and say convert your 20,000 FSX models to P3D models for ZERO return (aka do it for no revenue).  The harsh reality is that content providers still need FSX revenue and as such compromises are made for P3D to keep that FSX revenue stream. 

But, we're slowly seeing more and more products being made exclusively for P3D V4.x and I expect that trend will continue as the FSX revenue source starts to dwindle and competition across content providers forces the shift to products that would OOM in FSX but not P3D v4.x … it is a slow process (ok very slow) and I can understand (even if I don't like it) 3rd party content providers desire to continue getting revenue from FSX sales.  The FS9 to FSX transition too a very long time and I expect the FSX to P3D transition to take even longer … it's LM's job to enable features/visuals to lure the FSX base toward P3D and they are doing that with each release.  

There will be at some point (soon-ish) a clear "cut" departure from FSX … testing the resolute of content providers and user base … interesting times ahead.  Obviously I'm not allowed to provide any details.

 Cheers, Rob.

[adyfoot 19]

23 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

This is much cheaper than my prior hobby of auto racing, she is actually glad I'm settling down … however, she does give me "the eye" when I start browsing "aircraft for sale" web sites.

Haha - I've not got to that point yet.  But I did manage to have a conversation that ended in me ordering an i9-9900K, an ASUS Maximus XI Formula and some Corsair Vengeance DDR4 4000MHz CL19 RAM.  Also ordered one of the new EWKB Velocity waterblocks which has better performance over the Supremacy.  Fingers crossed for a good bit of silicon to push to overclock!

[Guest]

2 hours ago, adyfoot said:

EWKB Velocity waterblocks

Same here, supposed to arrive Oct 18th (day before CPU ships).  I went with G.Skill DDR4 4400Mhz CL18 … just 16GB RAM for now.

Yes it will be interesting to see what these CPUs can do.

4 hours ago, GSalden said:

That I also would like to now.

My TitanXP and 1080Ti are very close in performance so I would expect the results to be very similar for a 1080Ti vs 2080Ti on "today's" sims.  As for NVLink/SLI, it does seem to scale well … but no idea if it will cure your FPS drop over time issue … that's seems like an elusive problem.

Cheers, Rob.

[GSalden 4,654]

2 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

Same here, supposed to arrive Oct 18th (day before CPU ships).  I went with G.Skill DDR4 4400Mhz CL18 … just 16GB RAM for now.

Yes it will be interesting to see what these CPUs can do.

My TitanXP and 1080Ti are very close in performance so I would expect the results to be very similar for a 1080Ti vs 2080Ti on "today's" sims.  As for NVLink/SLI, it does seem to scale well … but no idea if it will cure your FPS drop over time issue … that's seems like an elusive problem.

Cheers, Rob.

This weekend I have installed a 2Tb 1800/1800 SSD m2.

When the Sim was dropping in franerate also my C SSD 560/520 was maxing out. With Aida64 and different read tests with different block sizes performance could drop just below 200. ...

As the 7940x can handle 350-400 I needed faster SSD’s or one large faster SSD. If the m2 drops to 25% of its max performance it is still doing 450.

But back on topic : I am happy with your testsresults...

If I can sell both 1080Ti for a reasonable price I will do that. If not I will keep them as 1080 2x  SLI has about the same performance as 1x 2080Ti...

[Guest]

Interesting, I seem to recall someone else had a performance problem related to specific block size … I think perhaps thought process left over from the "old days" … best to leave the NTFS partition at default for flight simulation and/or gaming.  For any M.2/SSD, I would leave the block size at default and make sure to install Samsung Magician (if you are running Samsung drives) and set the drives up accordingly (RAPID Mode On if supported and latest Firmware updates and drive optimization) … also reports Drive status and total Bytes written and you can run benchmark tests to make sure the drive is still performing as it should (so one has an idea how much life is left in the M.2/SSD).

I don't know if you are using a RAID setup, but for M.2/SSDs I would AVOID that configuration unless you're running a 3rd party dedicated high end SSD RAID controller using a PCIe slot.  I know with ASUS one of the PCIe slots needs to be disabled when using M.2 slots.

But why is your SSD is maxing out in P3D … are you recording locally while flying ... that shouldn't happen … I rarely see more than about 200MB/s activity on my M.2s unless I'm doing M.2 to M.2 large file copies, but never during P3D operations.  

Cheers, Rob.

[bbain1187 118]

Well...I'm torn. I still haven't opened my 2080 Ti. I could send it back and get a 1080 Ti for $600 less and have 95% of the performance according to Rob's benchmarks. But if P3D v5 comes out next year and supports DSLL and ray tracing, I think the 2080 Ti purchase will have been worthwhile. But then, if P3D doesn't incorporate the technologies for another couple years, the next gen cards will be out by then, I'll want one of those, and I will have essentially paid $1300 for a glorified 1080 Ti as far as P3D is concerned. Someone please push me in the right direction. Lol.

Ben 

[AnkH 2,233]

5 hours ago, bbain1187 said:

But if P3D v5 comes out next year and supports DSLL and ray tracing, I think the 2080 Ti purchase will have been worthwhile.

That's exactly the point I do not understand regarding buying a 2080Ti when already having a 1080Ti, honestly. As soon as DSLL and RT are available in enough amount of games and maybe even in P3Dv5 or 6, the 2080Ti is already outdated. Basically you should NEVER buy hardware for future purposes, only for the need you have at the very moment you buy the hardware, everything else is senseless.

Besides that, we as customers have a big influence on the market and the pricetag. And to be honest, even if I could afford it as well, I do still not want to support the way nVIDIA is pushing us now. 1300€ for a 2080Ti is simply 30-40% above any reasonable price tag, exactly due to the reason mentioned above. Buying those cards means telling nVIDIA that the way how they increased the prices is OK, while it is simply not. I know that some of you guys always want to have the fastest and the best, but sometimes, a little bit of modesty would be considerable, no? Even though I also profit from simmers like Rob, as we basically now know that buying a 2080Ti for P3D is simply a waste of money ;-)

[GSalden 4,654]

10 hours ago, Rob Ainscough said:

Interesting, I seem to recall someone else had a performance problem related to specific block size … I think perhaps thought process left over from the "old days" … best to leave the NTFS partition at default for flight simulation and/or gaming.  For any M.2/SSD, I would leave the block size at default and make sure to install Samsung Magician (if you are running Samsung drives) and set the drives up accordingly (RAPID Mode On if supported and latest Firmware updates and drive optimization) … also reports Drive status and total Bytes written and you can run benchmark tests to make sure the drive is still performing as it should (so one has an idea how much life is left in the M.2/SSD).

I don't know if you are using a RAID setup, but for M.2/SSDs I would AVOID that configuration unless you're running a 3rd party dedicated high end SSD RAID controller using a PCIe slot.  I know with ASUS one of the PCIe slots needs to be disabled when using M.2 slots.

But why is your SSD is maxing out in P3D … are you recording locally while flying ... that shouldn't happen … I rarely see more than about 200MB/s activity on my M.2s unless I'm doing M.2 to M.2 large file copies, but never during P3D operations.  

Cheers, Rob.

On my triple view system I have seem my C drive ( SSD 600 ) maxing out many times when flying in detailed scenery . And P3Dv4.3 was installed on drive D ( also SSD 600 )...

[G-RFRY 1,705]

By the time P3Dv5 is out Nvidia will be stating big things for new GPUs to come most likely a die shrink which is what they wanted for the 20 series, which will allow them to push the clocks higher, I get the impression that the 20 series is the Bata for the next GPU.  

[GSalden 4,654]

@Rob : check your Vegetation Receive shadows. Otherwise clouds/terrain shadows will show their shadows on buildings and sim objects ( eg : addon airports )  and not on trees/forest...

It really has surprised me that almost everyone is only focusing on shadows in the VC and not having clouds/terrains shadows enabled... 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by GSalden

[Guest]

7 hours ago, GSalden said:

check your Vegetation Receive shadows. Otherwise clouds/terrain shadows will show their shadows on buildings and sim objects ( eg : addon airports )  and not on trees/forest...

Yes, and that's how I like it, Trees are pretty dark anyway so I'd rather not spend the GPU time on them on something that isn't really that noticeable.

 

9 hours ago, AnkH said:

Buying those cards means telling nVIDIA that the way how they increased the prices is OK, while it is simply not.

We (consumers) have no "say" or "power" to change nVidia's pricing.  nVidia didn't sell the Titan Z nor the Titan V well at $3000, but it has always stayed at $3000.  In fact, I can't recall a single nVidia GPU that was reduced in price because of low demand.  nVidia would ONLY reduce the GPU price tags IF AMD came out with something as good or better with a lower price tag ... AMD have not done that.

 

9 hours ago, AnkH said:

I know that some of you guys always want to have the fastest and the best, but sometimes, a little bit of modesty would be considerable, no? Even though I also profit from simmers like Rob, as we basically now know that buying a 2080Ti for P3D is simply a waste of money

Not sure I understand the "modesty" comment and/or how that is relevant ... seems like you are trying to tell people not to buy these GPU because you believe the price will drop if they don't?  This has never happened in the history of GPUs and will never happen now or in the future UNLESS AMD bring something to the table ... and as we've seen, when AMD do bring something "close" to the table it is also about the same price as the nVidia counterpart.

As far as "value", that's entirely up to the individual and not something that can be dictated to others.  Depending how one wants to look at my data, they determine value ... if they look at my "Medium" and compare 1X 2080Ti to 1X TitanXP they see 4.1% gain ... if they look at my "Very High" 1X 2080Ti vs 1X TitanXP they see 20.2% gain.  If they look at my Very High 2X 2080Ti vs. 1X TitanXP they see a 97.6% gain.  For some the 97.6% gain will be worth the $2700, for others not so much ... depends where one currently is at and what they want to achieve.  For my purposes I could have bought a 2nd TitanXP for $1200 and seen a gain using the older SLI technology, or spend $2700 using newer GPUs and newer NVLink technology.

Am I disappointed in the single 2080Ti gain over TitanXP?  yes a little ... but am I happy with 97% gain using 2X 2080Ti, yes absolutely as it has really stepped up visual quality in P3D at 4K.  Sadly XP11 is running horribly, not sure what is going on there ... may have to wipe and re-install because XP did NOT like one or two 2080Ti's ... even when the profile disables one GPU, FPS was worse than my TitanXP?  So I need to look into what is going on with XP11 and these 2080Tis.

On the plus side, these water blocks arrived from EK so I can start the OC experiments.

Cheers, Rob.

[bbain1187 118]

9 hours ago, AnkH said:

That's exactly the point I do not understand regarding buying a 2080Ti when already having a 1080Ti, honestly. As soon as DSLL and RT are available in enough amount of games and maybe even in P3Dv5 or 6, the 2080Ti is already outdated. Basically you should NEVER buy hardware for future purposes, only for the need you have at the very moment you buy the hardware, everything else is senseless.

Besides that, we as customers have a big influence on the market and the pricetag. And to be honest, even if I could afford it as well, I do still not want to support the way nVIDIA is pushing us now. 1300€ for a 2080Ti is simply 30-40% above any reasonable price tag, exactly due to the reason mentioned above. Buying those cards means telling nVIDIA that the way how they increased the prices is OK, while it is simply not. I know that some of you guys always want to have the fastest and the best, but sometimes, a little bit of modesty would be considerable, no? Even though I also profit from simmers like Rob, as we basically now know that buying a 2080Ti for P3D is simply a waste of money 😉

Well I don't already have a 1080Ti, I have the 980 Ti. That's how I justified the purchase in my mind, because I held out buying the 1080 Ti while everyone was singing its praises, hoping the wait for the next generation would be worth it. But here we are. Lol.

[RamonB 449]

10 hours ago, AnkH said:

Besides that, we as customers have a big influence on the market and the pricetag. And to be honest, even if I could afford it as well, I do still not want to support the way nVIDIA is pushing us now. 1300€ for a 2080Ti is simply 30-40% above any reasonable price tag, exactly due to the reason mentioned above. Buying those cards means telling nVIDIA that the way how they increased the prices is OK,

We simmers and gamers are just a drop in a bucket.
IMO nowadays, what drives the video card market/price is the CryptoMining industry. Some farms have hundreds if not thousands of cards working/hashing  full power 24/7.

I might add that Nvidia has stated that "For nvidia, gamers come first", But resellers often inflate the prices way above MSRP see this Article,  or This to see some Farms.
Supply and demand market!.

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by RamonB
Corrected Quote.