Thrustmaster TPR Rudder Pedals - alternative to Crosswind?

[GHarrall 494]

Only available on pre order still in Canada and at $699 plus 13% tax. Too rich for my taste. I can buy a used 1080ti for that kind of cash. 

Only $390 for the mfg. The MFG also uses Hall effects sensors in the rudder axis. 

 

[Ray Proudfoot 8,946]

I accept the price in Canada is very high. The MFG is priced at 338 Euros (£300) compared to £412 for the TM. Unknown delivery times for the CFG.

[FreeBird(Josh) 314]

I ordered my CW and it was only about 5 wks before I got them. My concern with the others was the forward movement as I am using a gaming chair with wheels and the Forward movement  makes my chair move backwards when I push on them. If you use a fixed chair then I think the TM or,RUDO, would be nice otherwise you cant beat the CWs .

[jon b 2,047]

I was also impressed by Derek's review in PC Pilot ( my goodie bag contained the previous edition so had to buy the current issue , bah !)

I've just taken delivery of a TPR not had a great deal of time with them yet but my initial thoughts....

The build quality vs price seems spot on really, the machined arms and pedals look to be of a quality that they are  easily on a par with say a set of OEM motorbike foot rests which would sell for a similar amount, and then of course you also have the electronic internals included in the price. So, overall the manufacturing quality justifies the price alone I'd say.I've been using a set of CH pro pedals and the TPR is a big step up. I've not used them to test ground handling so far but I expect them to be good. The few brief flights I've used them with have been positive.They do self centre nicely but I've got them set to a low resistance so it is possible to be applying a slight input without realising it unless you take your feet off completely, as per real life I suppose.

My only slight negative observation is this, many people have commented that they do not pivot around a centre axis and so are more realistic in their movement.True, but what has been overlooked is that they are still rotating on an axis and so there is a vertical movement of the pedal as it rotates on its axis.This isn't an issue  if either applying full foot brake or applying full rudder with your feet on the floor. It does become an issue however if you try applying rudder and full brake at the same time as a resistance is felt, caused by the changing geometry.If you can imagine the pedals are following the circumference of an arc due to the pendulum design and so their angle changes throughout their travel.For example, in the centre position both toe brakes are pointing up at the 11 oclock postion, put in full left rudder and the left toe brake will be pointing to 12 oclock and the right toe brake will have rotated the other way and be pointing at 10 oclock. As a result you need to change the pitch of your foot as the rudder travels while applying brake to allow the rudders to move. If you don't move your foot pitch, as you wouldn't in real life, then a resistance is felt as the pedal is trying to change its angle but cant because of your rigid foot. Likewise if you were to apply rudder with your foot on the pedal as opposed to having your heel on the floor then the pedals rotate into your foot causing an accidental brake application.In this repect the CH pedals actually have a more natural feel. That's not to say I'd ever chose the CH over the TPR I wouldn't the pros outweigh this little annoyance which I'm sure I'll adapt to by finding a good foot position..

I don't think it would take much to adapt the TPR mechanism design so that the toe brake pedals are held at a constant angle through out the rudders travel, likewise it might be overcome by adjusting the angle the pedals are mounted, which you can easily do, I'm not sure I've not played around with them yet.

I just have them on the carpet under my desk and so for there's no issue with them sliding.

I obviously need to do more flying with them but overall I'm very happy with the purchase , theyre good quality and offer much greater fidelity and therefore much greather control and ultimately realism than my previous pedals. They also match the design of my warthog HOTAS which is nice.

So thus far I'd say very good and I'd recommend them , but there is that slight niggle caused by the geometry of the mechanism.

Cheers

Jon

 

[Ray Proudfoot 8,946]

Jon, many thanks for such a conprehensive report. It sounds like you have just kept to a single spring for less tension.

I have size 12 (UK) feet so I suspect even with my heels on the floor I’ll still be able to use the brakes. Would you agree?

Its good to hear they don’t slip on carpet although I could put something between it and the wall to stop it going backwards if it ever did.

I measured the width of my CH Pro Pedals and the TMs are 8” (20cm) wider so I think I’ll have to lose the Logitech subwoofer to accommodate them. I use a TV for my display so can just revert to the sound on that.

It would be unusual to apply full rudder and brake at the same time. Perhaps just slow down when taxiing. 😃

Have you tried adjusting the pedal angle? One video I watched the guy must have tried every setting before he was satisfied and he wasn’t impressed with the fiddly procedure. But once it’s done, it’s done.

[jon b 2,047]

Ray, don't let my ramblings put you off in any way, they're a great set of pedals and it's just a case of everyone finding their own sweetspot with their foot placement and pedal angles. I've not tried changing the pedal angle yet, mine are set almost bolt upright, but I'm sure you're correct if I were to adjust them to more of an inclined angle the resistance I mentioned may well reduce.

I have a UK 10 so can confirm you won't have any problems keeping your feet on the floor if you want to. The pedals are cupped so the leverage applied to them varies on how high your foot is but putting the ball of your foot on the bottom bar of the rudder and squeezing the brakes with your toes seems to work well for me. There's many different ways to skin this particular cat so it's just a matter of finding a way that suits. Some of my aircraft need a technique of rudder and differential brake to get them to behave and turn on the ground, there's something in DCS that's coming to mind.

I occasionally have to combine fairly large rudder movements and toe pedal breaking during the landing roll in my real world aircraft, and I don't find that particularly  comfortable  to do either so the TPR  probably are indeed a good recreation of real world controls in that respect.

As I say, still very early and lots of different aircraft and scenarios to try, engine failure on take off and asymmetrical flight,  I suspect , are where these pedals will really shine.

Edited October 12, 2018 by jon b

[Ray Proudfoot 8,946]

Jon,

Don't worry, you haven’t put me off. It’s a fair chunk of money so I'm taking my time over a decision. A few more reviews would help too.

[jon b 2,047]

Ray, I’m out in the Peak District not a million miles away. If you ever wanted to have a look at the TPS and shoot some some circuits  you’d be welcome anytime.

 

[Ray Proudfoot 8,946]

Thanks Jon. I could kick myself for not know bout these before Cosford last Saturday. Could you pm me with your address? Hopefully not too far off the beaten track.

[oemlegoem 29]

@Jon

Hello Jon,
Thanks for the thorough analysis. I have a question on the smoothness of moving the toe brakes. Pls read the review on arstechnica, see the section: "smooth versus not-so-smooth", The reviewer there describes a rough feel when engaging the toe brakes.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/09/thrustmaster-tpr-is-the-king-of-mass-market-flight-sim-pedals/

Can you please check on that aspect and describe how it feels to you. Thanks. 

[jon b 2,047]

My toe brakes feel totally smooth so I wouldn’t agree with the reviewers comments there. You attach the pedals yourself when you assemble the rudders. There’s a metal washer in the attachment to keep things smooth, also you tighten the bar yourself so maybe the reviewers rudders had been tightened up too much ?

But, no, the brake pedals feel very smooth and pleasant to use .

Jon

 

[tutmeister 705]

Hi Oemlegoem

Thanks for the ars link. Great review.

I'm now cautious and wishing id tried them at cosford. I'm wary of the sprung scissor mechanism as they are notorious for causing centre detents (see saitek yoke). In fact I've yet to see that type not have a centre detent. I was about to buy them until I read that review but for that kind of money I need to be sure they will be better than my crosswinds.

Chris

[oemlegoem 29]

Hello Chris,
In the Saitek yoke, the scissor mechanism is one evil that is necessary to compensate for another evil, which is the high friction of the bearings. Without the scissor, with hands off, the pitch could be in one position, or another position, depending on the bearing friction.
With the scissor mechanism, and with high spring tension in neutral position, the pitch always returns to the same neutral position.
(No need to explain to a yoke specialist though). 

With the Thrustmaster TPR, in theory, the centre detent can be avoided by adjusting the springs so that there is almost no spring tension in the neutral position. Question is then if the friction in the yaw mechanism is low enough to give a consistent neutral position. That would be another request if our kind reviewer Jon could test this.
(Of course, securing the springs without tension has to be considered. But for a test, the springs could be shifted to their bottom position in the scissor slots).

 

Edited October 13, 2018 by oemlegoem

[jon b 2,047]

I’m going to be away for a couple of days so won’t be able to play around with the TPR until I get back I’m afraid. However thus far I’m not feeling anything unrealistic or exaggerated with the neutral position, I have two springs installed at their least resistance positions at the moment and everything feels smooth and pleasant. I don’t think anyone would be disappointed with these pedals. I tried a bit of asymmetric work last night with a light -ish twin and they worked well , a big improvement over my previous CH pro.

Jon

[Ray Proudfoot 8,946]

I visited Jon today and you can read and watch all the reviews available for these pedals but there’s no substitute for actually using them. They are so precise. You think the CH Pro Pedals are doing a good job and for the money they probably are. But the extra precision the TPRs give you they are definitely worth the extra.

Same with his TM joystick. So precise when trimming compared to my Saitek. If I was an Airbus fan I might be tempted but I’ll hang on for a yoke. Just need to source some quality throttle units that have some buttons. Having this quality hardware helps you become a better pilot too and does help with the fine control on landing.

Thanks for the demo and your hospitality Jon. Now where’s that credit card... 😁