FAC in the PFD

[RDG41 1]

Hi,

I can't seem to find a good explanation on this. When I arm the LOC, FAC comes up on the PFD  instead of LOC. I've read through the manual but there is no explanation that I could find. as a result, the aircraft descends to 2000 ft then levels of, so no Autoland. Maybe because I armed it too soon?

I know on the 744, you can't arm the LOC till you are within range. 

 

Ok. I changed the option to correct loc crs to sim to ON and the glide slope was captured and I just did a Land 3 autoland. Not sure is that was the issue or if I was just engaging the LOC too early.

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by RDG41

[ph-cxz 28]

You pushed it to early that’s why FAC is shown. Final approach course.

[RDG41 1]

Thanks for confirming that Koen. That's what i suspected but wasn't entirely sure.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

9 hours ago, RDG41 said:

Maybe because I armed it too soon?

As Koen mentioned, this is the case.

Basically, if the plane isn't receiving a signal, and you ask for it to get you home, it'll get you home by essentially creating the approach course with what it has right now (loaded approach data).

[Ephedrin 418]

You can google for Integrated Approach Navigation (IAN) if you want to read about it.

[exstense 23]

I tried several times the following:

I want to land in EDDF, RWY 25L via UNOKA2L star, transtion MTR. Me too, I get the FAC shown, instead of the LOC as I was expecting. Reading the commments in this thread, I did several attempts, never succeeded. I pressed the LOC at several different moments, varying from very soon to very late, always showing FAC.

My flightsituation, moments before I push the LOC.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Akh5cE_E9Efkjc9Ed3sRAnLANR547g

(Indeed, I didn't insert the minimum altitude 😱)

Edited November 3, 2018 by exstense
added the url

[downscc 1,327]

On your PFD look at the deviation scale below the artificial horizon, a roll of dots and a bar in the center, and wait until you see a white diamond appear.  That white diamond means  the localizer signal is being received.  Also, there will be a white diamond on the right side vertical deviation scale when the glide slope is received.  I usually wait until I see the GS diamond appear before I arm APPR.

Keep in mind that a localizer beam is only about 3 deg wide, which means you need to be less than a mile from the course when 5 nm from the antenna.  Those white diamonds appear when the signal is detected, and when the LOC or GS is captured they turn solid green.

If there is no signal the aircraft assumes you are going to shoot an approach using IAN.

[Budbud 227]

Hi,

Check also that the frequency of the ILS shown in the RAD NAV page matches the one of your scenery. If there is a mismatch the nav receiver won't get any ILS signal and the FMC will use the IAN instead of the ILS.

It may happen when a scenery is not up-to-date (stock or old scenery).

[exstense 23]

22 hours ago, Budbud said:

Hi,

Check also that the frequency of the ILS shown in the RAD NAV page matches the one of your scenery. If there is a mismatch the nav receiver won't get any ILS signal and the FMC will use the IAN instead of the ILS.

It may happen when a scenery is not up-to-date (stock or old scenery).

Checked, and the frequencies matches

23 hours ago, downscc said:

On your PFD look at the deviation scale below the artificial horizon, a roll of dots and a bar in the center, and wait until you see a white diamond appear.  That white diamond means  the localizer signal is being received.  Also, there will be a white diamond on the right side vertical deviation scale when the glide slope is received.  I usually wait until I see the GS diamond appear before I arm APPR.

Keep in mind that a localizer beam is only about 3 deg wide, which means you need to be less than a mile from the course when 5 nm from the antenna.  Those white diamonds appear when the signal is detected, and when the LOC or GS is captured they turn solid green.

If there is no signal the aircraft assumes you are going to shoot an approach using IAN.

Aha, there is the problem, I never saw/see that white diamond.
After changing the runway, just before landing, to 25R (well, changing runway just before landing was already challenging enough 😉 ) the LOC appears.
Then I did the saved flight again, but now for 25C (double checked frequencies), same problem occured.

I'm going to do some landings on EHAM, which succeeded before and have a look at the differences (besides studying the FCOM)

[RDG41 1]

On 11/3/2018 at 2:09 PM, downscc said:

On your PFD look at the deviation scale below the artificial horizon, a roll of dots and a bar in the center, and wait until you see a white diamond appear.  That white diamond means  the localizer signal is being received.  Also, there will be a white diamond on the right side vertical deviation scale when the glide slope is received.  I usually wait until I see the GS diamond appear before I arm APPR.

Keep in mind that a localizer beam is only about 3 deg wide, which means you need to be less than a mile from the course when 5 nm from the antenna.  Those white diamonds appear when the signal is detected, and when the LOC or GS is captured they turn solid green.

If there is no signal the aircraft assumes you are going to shoot an approach using IAN.

Thanks Dan for explaining this. It’s helped me to understand it better.

[exstense 23]

Found out what the problem is. - shame on me that I just found out now -

Several airports, including EDDF have the wrong, or even completely missing runwaynumbers.

I thought this could be usefull: http://www.aero.sors.fr/navaids.html. But it says: "In Europe region, all data (VORs, NDBs, ILSs, runway identifiers, approach lighting systems, PAPIs, en route intersections and airways) are corrected."

It's offtopic, but has anyone an idea in which direction I have to look for a solution?

Using P3Dv4.3, ORBX (Global, Vectors, OpenLCEurope), GSX, UTlive, Chaseplane, and several PMDG stuff

Thanks in advance

 

[downscc 1,327]

18 minutes ago, exstense said:

but has anyone an idea in which direction I have to look for a solution?

Solution to what problem?  Obsolete navdata is just part of simulation.  Please be more precise with problem statement.  This thread has at least four or more different problems discussed and I've lost track of what you are trying to resolve.

[exstense 23]

15 hours ago, downscc said:

Solution to what problem?  Obsolete navdata is just part of simulation.  Please be more precise with problem statement.  This thread has at least four or more different problems discussed and I've lost track of what you are trying to resolve.

Hi Dan,

Apologies for the confusion.

As you know, I can not manage the LOC and GS approach in EDDF. You have explained to me perfectly well how things should be done. After experimenting at other airports, everything worked properly on those airports. Only then did I realize that there were 'wrong' runways and numbers in EDDF. I thought this could be solved with the "Navaids-Airport tools", but that was not the case.Then I asked the question, looking for a solution to improve the missing / wrong runway numbers. Actually, you gave me the direction what I had to look for in your last post: "Obsolete navdata is just part of simulation."

So, in the future, I will check before flightplanning, if the runways exists in P3D

Thank you!

Edited November 6, 2018 by exstense
Typo's

[Budbud 227]

Hello,

If the runway numbers are wrong, you can still use the ILS as long as you manually enter the frequency and course of the ILS from the map in P3D into the page RAD NAV of the FMS.

Go to the map of P3D, check this data for the runway you want to land on and enter them manually in the CDU.

That was what I guessed when I talked about frequency mismatch.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Budbud

[scandinavian13 5,192]

17 minutes ago, Budbud said:

If the runway numbers are wrong, you can still use the ILS as long as you manually enter the frequency and course of the ILS from the map in P3D into the page RAD NAV of the FMS

In theory.

The "numbers being wrong" points to the larger issue of outdated scenery, and in the case of EDDF, not only did the runway layout change, the freqs changed.