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New MD11 for P3Dv4.3

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4 hours ago, signmanbob said:

I would say that this aircraft should sell for about $35 to be fair for the type of customer that would like this MD11.  $50 for an aircraft that doesn't come close enough to satisfactorily emulating the MD11 flight systems and needs to load the flight plan from the simulator is just a little steep. Then, considering the price of aircraft with deep systems and awesome graphics, it's not real bad.

I believe that simmers that don't like complex aircraft and reading through manuals, will love this MD11.  It loads the flight plan from the sim and starts all of the engines with Ctrl+E.  It flies and handles nicely and has a "heavy feel" to it.

Yup, nothing wrong with making an add-on aeroplane which is a little bit simpler in terms of system replication, there's definitely a market for such products. I and I'm sure many others, actually quite like add-ons where you can just 'jump into and go'. They can be fun sometimes when you don't want to spend 20 minutes setting the cockpit up.

But that is where they've got the price wrong on this one; it's a bit too expensive for a product of its nature and is in danger of falling between two stools; too pricey for a casual simmer, but not sophisticated enough for a serious simmer.

Still, for those who are prepared to give it a shot, it's now up on Just Flight's web store too, priced at £39.99.

Edited by Chock

Alan Bradbury

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3 minutes ago, Chock said:

They can be fun sometimes when you don't want to spend 20 minutes setting the cockpit up.

But that is where they've got the price wrong on this one; it's a bit too expensive for a product of its nature and is in danger of falling between two stools; too pricey for a casual simmer, but not sophisticated enough for a serious simmer.

Fully agree. On the other hand, Carenado and Alabeo for non-airliners are already in the $35 region. But at least you get well-done VC textures.

I rather prefer to save a situation in a well-simulated complex aircraft rather than use a default-like aircraft in order to be quickly ready for a flight. For a casual simmer who does not want to bother with complex systems and just wants to fly around, it might be a consideration, although too expensive for what it is offered at the moment.


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Chris

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Yup, I'd certainly expect it to be more than for example, Virtualcol's airliners, which are unashemedly cheap and cheerful, so they don't have especially nice VCs. But with Virtualcol, you accept that you're not paying a lot for them, so it's an acceptable trade off to settle for a pretty basic looking cockpit, however, this MD-11 appears to have about the same level of sophistication as those far cheaper offerings, in terms of what it simulates and how it handles flight plans etc, so it's rather a step up in price from those (i.e. more than double) for a prettier VC.

If (or more likely when lol) they drop the price, I'd be tempted to give it a whirl, but for now I'll vote with my wallet and give it a miss.


Alan Bradbury

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Thanks Bob for the impressions so far. Sounds lime it'd be too simple for me in its current state. I'd like to have an a FMS that's closer to the real thing then this seems to offer, coupled to an actual LNAV mode. Don't need VNAV, but would like something like level change. I'm curious about the simulation of the engine start sequence: is it like the horrid default one where there is a ridiculous temperature spike that quickly drops to normal values, or did they try to make it into a more normal, stable sequence? (I think I already know the answer, but am curious anyway)

 

I'll probably stick with my original plan for a freighter... Get the CS75F whenever it's available. Much, much more expensive, but at least I believe I'll get something more up my alley than this MD-11. Or alternatively, if QW ever get their 757 into P3Dv4 (which I know they were working on), then that would be a solution as well.


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1 hour ago, Benjamin J said:

Thanks Bob for the impressions so far. Sounds lime it'd be too simple for me in its current state. I'd like to have an a FMS that's closer to the real thing then this seems to offer, coupled to an actual LNAV mode. Don't need VNAV, but would like something like level change. I'm curious about the simulation of the engine start sequence: is it like the horrid default one where there is a ridiculous temperature spike that quickly drops to normal values, or did they try to make it into a more normal, stable sequence? (I think I already know the answer, but am curious anyway)

 

I'll probably stick with my original plan for a freighter... Get the CS75F whenever it's available. Much, much more expensive, but at least I believe I'll get something more up my alley than this MD-11. Or alternatively, if QW ever get their 757 into P3Dv4 (which I know they were working on), then that would be a solution as well.

The engine start does not seem realistic on this at all.

With the real (PMDG) MD11, much is automatic.  It pretty much sets itself up to start. This version doesn't seem to do that and I ended up having to Ctrl+E to get the engines started and then they just whip-up to a running state, one after the other.

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1 minute ago, signmanbob said:

The engine start does not seem realistic on this at all.

With the real (PMDG) MD11, much is automatic.  It pretty much sets itself up to start. This version doesn't seem to do that and I ended up having to Ctrl+E to get the engines started and then they just whip-up to a running state, one after the other.

Oof -.- Exactly what I hate. I'll probably pass on this MD-11, as much as I miss having that aircraft. Thanks for letting me know Bob!


Benjamin van Soldt

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5 hours ago, Cargostorm said:

 

OK. This plane is a no-go then. Too sad. If I buy a simulation, I expect that the systems - at least for normal operations - are as close to the REAL aircraft as possible. Even the FMS appears to be nowhere compared to the Pegasus Honeywell FMS in the real bird. Then also a high price tag is justified. I will stick with PMDG MD11 in the meantime (which works well in P3DV3) and wait for the MD11 from Rotate in Xplane instead.

Yes, the FMS is bare-bones.  You put ORIG/DEST and use the simulator to load the flight plan.  

The INIT and FLTPLN page is all that there is.  No other pages. So there is no VNAV, PERF, PROG or TAKEOFF pages. Also the FLTPLN page does not show altitudes.

Makes it very quick and simple to set up a flight, but not realistic.

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See, this plane seems almost just right for me... good looks, good FPS and light on the systems.  If only it was in the $35-40 price range.  There is a market out there for guys like us.

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55 minutes ago, Clutch Cargo said:

See, this plane seems almost just right for me... good looks, good FPS and light on the systems.  If only it was in the $35-40 price range.  There is a market out there for guys like us.

Yup, as I said, I think they've well and truly shot themselves up the @ss with the price; they'd make far more money from volume sales if they offered it at a price where lots of people would be prepared to give it a go.

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Alan Bradbury

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4 hours ago, signmanbob said:

Yes, the FMS is bare-bones.  You put ORIG/DEST and use the simulator to load the flight plan.  

The INIT and FLTPLN page is all that there is.  No other pages. So there is no VNAV, PERF, PROG or TAKEOFF pages. Also the FLTPLN page does not show altitudes.

Makes it very quick and simple to set up a flight, but not realistic.

Bob, was it able to track an ILS approach?  Also, how's the A/T? 

For those of you interested in the FMC, you can find detail information about it's capabilities here:  emarciano.free.fr/En/EasyFMC_Doc/Intro.html

 


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2 hours ago, Chock said:

Yup, as I said, I think they've well and truly shot themselves up the @ss with the price; they'd make far more money from volume sales if they offered it at a price where lots of people would be prepared to give it a go.

Alan,

I have to disagree; I think we're all stuck in the past, as it relates to Flt Sim pricing norms.  It appears every developer has taken the opportunity to raise prices, using P3D development costs as rationale to do so.  You highlighted Virtualcol; well, their latest CRJ cost $26 USD, which represents a 44% price increase over their prior release (SAAB). I suspect we'll continue to see moderate price increases from them as they react to the new norms.  Again, developers are simply charging more for P3D for some nebulous reasons.  It stinks, but $44 USD is probably the new standard for a lite/moderate P3D heavy airliner. I don't know if this represents the correct equilibrium price or not; however, when looking at the market, I don't believe it's absurd either.  Some companies are charging $140 for their complex BASE models; pushing the ceiling allows less complex models to raise their prices too...simple economics.  After all, this MD-11 is 230% cheaper than the upper price ceiling.  In fact, if you extrapolate the numbers further, the MD-11 represents a good/fair deal.  Rewind the clock 6 years ago; back then, the price ceiling for a complex airliner was about $80; conversely, lite models (F-lite, CLS and QW) cost around $30, which was about 167% cheaper. As you can see, in todays market, the Sky SIm MD-11 represents a better value than CLS aircraft of 'their day.'  In short, Sky Sims is only following market trends; we're crazy if we don't think other companies will continue said trend.  In fact, they already are, including Virtualcol.  We only have ourselves to blame for these unwarranted price inflations, which I hope don't prevent young and/or retired people for joining our hobby.  In short, our outrage shouldn't be directed at Sky Sim; they're simply reacting to the market that WE allowed.  Instead, perhaps we should look at our so-called industry leaders, which are often heralded without regard to how they're impacting the fragile Flt Sim ecosystem...

Edited by kingm56
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34 minutes ago, kingm56 said:

we're crazy if we don't think other companies will continue said trend.

Nope, we're crazy if we choose to pay for it, so I won't, and I hope others won't either. I am not averse to paying for anything I think is worth the money, but this MD-11 is basically an update of an older product. They've done some reprogramming of the systems, the 3D modeling has been updated, the textures have been upped in resolution and had some lighting effects added, and they've added wing flex.

You think that's worth 40 quid? Because I don't and I'll tell you why too. The iFly Boeing 747-400 for P3D V4 is only 45 quid (i.e. just £5 more) and it was even less than that if people had bought it for FSX previously because Flight 1 offered a discount coupon. This is an add-on airliner which is going to have a free update shortly which will include an additional 747-8 variant, so that's two variants of the Boeing 747, with all the systems realistically simulated, for a fiver more than Sky Simulations are charging for a 'lite' update of an old FSX add-on.

It's worth 30 quid, tops, probably more like 25, and the only reason they're charging more for it is because they're hoping to cash in on people missing their PMDG MD-11 in P3D V4, and it ain't no PMDG add-on, or iFly for that matter. I mean come on, the Majestic Dash eight pilot edition is the same price as this MD-11. Are you really gonna tell me it's as good as that and worthy of the same price tag?

Edited by Chock
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Alan Bradbury

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Alan,

I concur with you; however, you and I cannot impact the market alone.  The simple fact is, we, as a community, have allowed these price escalations.  Also, your iFLY example reinforces my notion regarding the impetus of said price inflations. Specifically, it was released in 2011/12, before the 'new ceiling' was set.  At the time of its release, it represented the current market value for a solid rendition of a modern airliner.  If it was released today, you bet it would be more than $54 USD; in fact,  I'll bet you a cold one their 737 MAX will be closer to $100 than $50.

If anyone is interested, they can do some research and discover when the escalations began; it's not that difficult to decipher...


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4 minutes ago, kingm56 said:

Alan,

I concur with you; however, you and I cannot impact the market alone.  The simple fact is, we, as a community, have allowed these price escalations.  Also, your iFLY example reinforces my notion regarding the impetus of said price inflations. Specifically, it was released in 2011/12, before the 'new ceiling' was set.  At the time of its release, it represented the current market value for a solid rendition of a modern airliner.  If it was released today, you bet it would be more than $54 USD; in fact,  I'll bet you a cold one their 737 MAX will be closer to $100 than $50.

If anyone is interested, they can do some research and discover when the escalations began; it's not that difficult to decipher...

Well, the IFly 747 for P3Dv4 was released in July 2017, I think, so... I do agree with you that there is a ridiculous inflation going on and I'm pretty sure to what companies it is linked, and this is probably driving other companies to increase their prices as well, as you two already said. I'll just add that, for me, it comes down to decency. That said, I don't know what's goingon behind the scenes. I've understood there's some politics and legal sides to some of these things as well that may drive the costs up for some companies - but then again, as I said, I have absolutely no idea how these things work.

As it is, I personally wouldn't go for this plane even if it were 10$. I don't think I'd fly it. Just seems too basic for me overall.


Benjamin van Soldt

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On 10/18/2018 at 8:18 PM, kingm56 said:

It’s the latter; however, if you own FSBuild or EFB2, you can simply include the SID/STAR into the flight plan.   In fact, EFB2 is dynamic; so, if the STAR changes, you simply have to update EFB2 with new data and it will dynamically update your flight plan.  This allows you to fly SID/STARS with Eric M FMSLite. It does not, however, allow for vertical navigation. You’ll need ISG1 for that...,

Have anyone checked out if ISG1 avionics works well in P3Dv4? In particular with this plane?.

Cheers, Ed


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