New P3D v4 PC - advice and comments welcome

[Charlatan 68]

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Looking at your spec you have the 8700K which is virtually identical to the 8086K and you have 3200 RAM. Shouldn’t you have faster RAM?

3200mhz was the fastest available at the time

[Charlatan 68]

24 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Let’s take a step back on the RAM. Dual channel or quad channel? Any benefit of one over the other?

Then we can look at what speeds are available.

Dual channel tends to help overclocking

[lownslo 592]

This: https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3600c15d-16gtz

Overclocks like a scalded rabbit, close to being bullet proof, and probably costs less than the Corsair you spec'd.  This TridentZ memory will give you far better flexibility in your overclocking.

Greg

[Ray Proudfoot 8,954]

17 minutes ago, lownslo said:

This: https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3600c15d-16gtz

Overclocks like a scalded rabbit, close to being bullet proof, and probably costs less than the Corsair you spec'd.  This TridentZ memory will give you far better flexibility in your overclocking.

Greg

Thanks Greg. Would that help the 8086K overclock beyond 5.0Ghz? With such fast memory does it shift a bottleneck elsewhere? Balanced components is essential I imagine.

[lownslo 592]

31 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Balanced components is essential I imagine. 

This is what is critical, Ray.  Generally, the CPU has always been the bottleneck for us... we can never have enough performance out of our CPU's.  Sooo, don't make another part of the system (MB, memory, GPU) be the bottleneck... lest you'd be cheating yourself. 

There's a lot of variables that determine a CPU's maximum overclock.  Like you, I decided this week to move to the 8086K paired with the memory I linked to instead of a 9000 series CPU... and I think Bob Scott (w6kd) chose that GSkill memory for his new 8086K system, too.  The price should be good on the memory (bought mine a few weeks ago on sale for a little over $200US), and if you want to go for a clock into the low-mid 5GHz range with your 8086K the GSkill certainly won't hurt (honestly, it will help you achieve the best overclock you can with your motherboard).

Greg

[Ray Proudfoot 8,954]

8 hours ago, lownslo said:

This is what is critical, Ray.  Generally, the CPU has always been the bottleneck for us... we can never have enough performance out of our CPU's.  Sooo, don't make another part of the system (MB, memory, GPU) be the bottleneck... lest you'd be cheating yourself. 

There's a lot of variables that determine a CPU's maximum overclock.  Like you, I decided this week to move to the 8086K paired with the memory I linked to instead of a 9000 series CPU... and I think Bob Scott (CL17-19-19-39) chose that GSkill memory for his new 8086K system, too.  The price should be good on the memory (bought mine a few weeks ago on sale for a little over $200US), and if you want to go for a clock into the low-mid 5GHz range with your 8086K the GSkill certainly won't hurt (honestly, it will help you achieve the best overclock you can with your motherboard).

Greg

Greg,

Firstly, that link was for 16Gb when I want 32Gb. I've done some searching for F4-3600C17D-32GTZ  and the reviews are few with many talking more about the RGB colours than the performance. If they're so good then where are all the good reviews?

I won't be overclocking the build myself. It will be down to Chillblast. Now here's the $64,000 question. Will putting in this much faster memory allow them to overclock the 8086K beyond 5.0Ghz and if so by how much? If they get it to 5.2Ghz what will be the impact on fps? Another 2-3? Another 10? Is the extra cost justified if fps increases only slightly?

This is expensive memory here in the UK. Prices are around £400.

Looking at less fast memory but with faster latency I found these. F4-3200C14D-32GTZ and they get better reviews on Amazon. Latency is 14-14-14-34 but on the faster memory you linked to the latency is  17-19-19-39 which seems slower.

All very confusing to this layman.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,954]

Found this discussion about clock speed versus latency ...https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/7xmmx1/is_faster_speed_better_for_ram_or_is_lower/

"All that being said, 3200MHz RAM seems to be the most popular performance per dollar RAM available on the market today and realistically you might get 1 more FPS at most with the 3600 (if that) so there's really no reason to get it solely for gaming."

"Depends on your build. For intel you can get away with 2100-2600 realistically, going faster doesnt make a noticeable difference. For ryzen though the faster the better, up to a certain point. 3200-3400 is the sweetspot for ryzen for performance/dollar, you get diminishing returns after that."

That answer seems to suggest that only the AMD processor would benefit significantly from faster clock speed RAM.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,954]

This G Skill memory seems to be a decent choice with good latency. https://gskill.com/en/product/f4-3000c14d-32gtz

I'm never going to get Chillblast to overclock a 8086K to 5.5. My links above suggest improvements are limited anyway with ultra-fast memory which is why I think the ones I've selected are a decent compromise.

[martin-w 3,235]

Trident Z is top notch memory. Samsung b-die. Past few builds I've gone for 3200 MHz. 3400 - 3600 would be theoretically beneficial but it's VERY expensive and you wont be throwing you are arms up in the air with excitement at the performance benefits. 

Like I said though.... GKill Ripjaw V is also Samsung b-die, also superb RAM. And cheaper than Trident.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gskill-F4-3200C16D-16GVGB-Memory-3200-16-RipjawsV/dp/B017WST5EE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1540464854&sr=8-1&keywords=gskill+ripjaw+v+3200

I don't see why you are going for 32 GB. Why not go for 16 GB and the money you save can go toward the faster frequency and better latency. 

H100X.... not sure why you aren't going for a 280 rad or 360 rad AIO. Cooler and quieter. Something like the Corsair H150i with TRIPLE radiator... 360mm. Or the H115i 240 rad. Cooling isn't something you should compromise on. 

 

Edited October 25, 2018 by martin-w

[Ray Proudfoot 8,954]

Martin,

I’m trying to future-proof the spec to some degree. The L-M requirement for v4 is 16Gb+ but who knows what v5 requirements will be?

If I bought 16Gb and then v5 needed 32 for optimum performance I’d have to ditch the 16 and buy new since memory has to be matched. It’s cheaper to get 32 now and be done.

Regarding cooling the H115 is slightly larger and spins slightly slower than the H100 so the difference isn’t massive. The room is relatively cool and bear in mind this is the UK, not Southern California so temps are far more reasonable. 😄

Faster speeds and latency have a very small difference as I pointed out in my earlier reply and you said as much in yours.

I notice on the link you provided it only got 3 stars. Curious.

Edited October 25, 2018 by Ray Proudfoot

[martin-w 3,235]

2 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Martin,

I’m trying to future-proof the spec to some degree. The L-M requirement for v4 is 16Gb+ but who knows what v5 requirements will be?

If I bought 16Gb and then v5 needed 32 for optimum performance I’d have to ditch the 16 and buy new since memory has to be matched. It’s cheaper to get 32 now and be done.

 

 

Not really. You can buy a 16 kit now, and then another 16 kit in the future.  As long as they are matching frequency, timings, voltage and both DDR4 etc. Ideally, theoretically, for max overclock, it's best to have just two slots filled, but 4 slots filled shouldn't compromise overclocking too much on a modern board. The GSkill kit I linked to could be purchased and installed and later the same kit bought for the other two slots. Precisely what I did with my sons PC. Of course if you cant be bothered with that, by all means buy your 32GB as one kit now.

 

Quote

Faster speeds and latency have a very small difference as I pointed out in my earlier reply and you said as much in yours.

 

Indeed, but I don't believe you need 32 GB. 32 GB will over zero benefit. A few hundred megahertz will offer a benefit, all be it small. I don't sim any more, so am not up to speed on P3D... so if you are convinced it will require tons of RAM... go for it.

 

Re cooling, If you'd like to go for a 240 rad instead of a 280 rad and 120 fans instead of 140 fans... your choice. I know what I'd do though. 

 

Quote

I notice on the link you provided it only got 3 stars. Curious.

 

🙄 Read the replies. One guy  had a Ryzen issue, (well known) one marked it down despite the fact it was functioning perfectly and the last guy hadn't a clue what he was doing and expected it to run at XMP settings at optimised defaults. 

 

I think I've advised enough. And you seem to have made your mind. So good luck with the build.

Edited October 25, 2018 by martin-w

[pgde 571]

Ray -- you may already have read this but here is a review of the 8086k -- https://www.anandtech.com/show/12945/the-intel-core-i7-8086k-review

[Paul Golding 92]

Watching with interest as I'm in a similar position Ray.  I was looking at Chillblast too, but the above seems to be something they'll build to spec, as opposed to using the preset options on the website.  It'll be interesting to know the price, once you've nailed the spec; it might save me time to go to them instead PCSpecialist again as the only change I'd make would be to go for the 1080, not to mention they don't seem to offer the option for a 8086 either.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,954]

1 hour ago, martin-w said:

 

Not really. You can buy a 16 kit now, and then another 16 kit in the future.  As long as they are matching frequency, timings, voltage and both DDR4 etc. Ideally, theoretically, for max overclock, it's best to have just two slots filled, but 4 slots filled shouldn't compromise overclocking too much on a modern board. The GSkill kit I linked to could be purchased and installed and later the same kit bought for the other two slots. Precisely what I did with my sons PC. Of course if you cant be bothered with that, by all means buy your 32GB as one kit now.

 

 

Indeed, but I don't believe you need 32 GB. 32 GB will over zero benefit. A few hundred megahertz will offer a benefit, all be it small. I don't sim any more, so am not up to speed on P3D... so if you are convinced it will require tons of RAM... go for it.

 

Re cooling, If you'd like to go for a 240 rad instead of a 280 rad and 120 fans instead of 140 fans... your choice. I know what I'd do though. 

 

 

🙄 Read the replies. One guy  had a Ryzen issue, (well known) one marked it down despite the fact it was functioning perfectly and the last guy hadn't a clue what he was doing and expected it to run at XMP settings at optimised defaults. 

 

I think I've advised enough. And you seem to have made your mind. So good luck with the build.

I take your point about 16 now and another purchase in the future should it be necessary. It’s just that someone I know and trust said they need to match exactly which may not be possible in the future.

I’m trying to keep an open mind on memory whilst trying to future-proof my build. I might run a survey on the P3D forum on whether 32 is needed or just desirable.

Before I order this computer I will speak to Chillblast and go through each option and check if it’s suitable or whether something different might be better. Cooling will get a mention.

The trouble reading user reviews is you’ll always get someone who either doesn’t have the knowledge or hasn’t read the instructions.

Appreciate your input and will try to keep an open mind. At least you agree on the rest of the kit! 😃

[Ray Proudfoot 8,954]

57 minutes ago, Paul Golding said:

Watching with interest as I'm in a similar position Ray.  I was looking at Chillblast too, but the above seems to be something they'll build to spec, as opposed to using the preset options on the website.  It'll be interesting to know the price, once you've nailed the spec; it might save me time to go to them instead PCSpecialist again as the only change I'd make would be to go for the 1080, not to mention they don't seem to offer the option for a 8086 either.

Hi Paul. First time with Chillblast as I bought my last one from Scan. They can get the 8086K and G.Skill memory but they don’t appear on the customise option for FS PCs. You have a wider choice by starting from scratch.

If you send me a PM once I have it I’ll let you know the price. Don’t want to advertise it here.