Why is it so hard for addon devs to not alienate customers?

[cmpbellsjc 2,960]

1 hour ago, Johnny19 said:

May I ask why was my post deleted? 

Your post is still here, one the first page. We actually don’t delete posts, just hide them if necessary. I don’t see any posts besides your first one in this topic and none are hidden.

 

20 hours ago, Johnny19 said:

Very smart and intelligent text I might say. Seeing the drama that unfolded the past few days was just insane. It was just sad how people can be rude to one another. It is also apsurd that no one can criticize, ask, suggest, observe, without being an outcast of the community the same second he/she posts something. 

There is more drama here than in a bus full of drag queens going to a wig sale, i tell ya. 

 

[Johnny19 344]

20 minutes ago, cmpbellsjc said:

Your post is still here, one the first page. We actually don’t delete posts, just hide them if necessary. I don’t see any posts besides your first one in this topic and none are hidden.

 

 

I'm taking about my post that I posted an hour ago. Never mind. Take care. 

[vadriver 247]

1 hour ago, tonywob said:

I was doing it for free

some aren't .... that to me is the core of the "angst" above.

& those some have no face, just a "real name" un-colibrated signature in cyberspace !

[scianoir 610]

On a positive note, if there was a good service award in the FlightSim world, Just Flight would surely be one of the top contenders. My experience of them is that they are invariably pleasant, polite and helpful in dealing with support requests and this attitude is carried over into their forums where I have noticed that their replies, even to quite aggressively worded posts, always seem to be measured, restrained and helpful. Just Flight is an example of a company that is truly a pleasure to deal with.

Bill

Edited November 4, 2018 by scianoir

[bill62 40]

A simple opening statement from the developer acknowledging the customer's issue and resulting frustration is a proven customer service tact.

It deescalates or ensures the exchange does not escalate into a shouting match. Limit developer and customer follow on exchanges to the facts will provides the best opportunity for an amiable out come.

Reader's Digest version: Treat each other like human beings.

[Raging Bull 23]

6 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

Would it have been so difficult to have replied to Kyle's post in a more constructive (and respectful) manner, guys? The question that the OP asked at the start of this thread works both ways.

 

And likewise from him, and some others in ‘customer service’. 

 

[pracines 823]

26 minutes ago, bill62 said:

Reader's Digest version: Treat each other like human beings.

I understand what you're trying to mean, but it is humans that steal, cheat, lie, murder, envy, the list goes on. I'm not saying that's all we are capable of, or that all we do is wrong, but we would not be here acknowledging this over all problem, if being "human" was enough.  

As soon as we admit our general guilt or potential for wrong doing/thinking, the potential to overcome these things will increase. To think that any of us are simply "good people" is a huge mistake and that is not the case.

I'm telling all of you the truth, that there is a distinct and provable fact these days that doing the wrong thing is becoming good, and doing good is wrong in the eyes (or heart) of the majority throughout the whole world. I'm positive that this will not cease by trying to be more "human", but to understand everyday we have a choice to do good things, treat others with kindness, stop loving money and self over other people. 

I wish it were not so, but there are times when some harshness is called for and correct, but it should be tempered with kindness and respect, similar but not always the same as disciplining ones child. You're harsh because you care for their well being. 

How many of us truly and personally care about the rest of us here in this community?

54 minutes ago, bill62 said:

A simple opening statement from the developer acknowledging the customer's issue and resulting frustration is a proven customer service tact.

It deescalates or ensures the exchange does not escalate into a shouting match. Limit developer and customer follow on exchanges to the facts will provides the best opportunity for an amiable out come.

This is very good advice, but to take it a step further; lets not use "tactics" or "methods". Lets genuinely care, not for self serving interests ('good for business', or 'I only like GA'), but for everybody as equally as we possibly can.

Think about something as simple and as this as crazy as this reality: So you hate 'tube liners", or you hate GA? What good does that do at all? Can your hatred of either blink them out of existence? All it does is lead to hatred of people who do not hate those. What insanity! Just enjoy both or enjoy the fact that others enjoy them...problem solved! Maybe 10-20 years added to your life from the relief of stress!

Motive is huge.

[bill62 40]

Paul, I'm agreeing with you. Tactics without genuine follow up and follow through would be patronizing.  You can't fake it. Audio and video must match.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

10 hours ago, Raging Bull said:

Snore fest, Kyle. And that’s half your problem, zzzzzzzz.....

My post was genuinely looking for feedback.

The OP posted a question that deserves a detailed answer - from anyone - and I provided one.

...and yet I'm insulted for it, and people here are wondering why devs occasionally post terse replies.

10 hours ago, kingm56 said:

True; plus, as evident by the drivel above, he always needs to be right, which is a poor attribute for a customer service representative.

While this is an excellent retort that would take me down a few pegs, it seems to be ignoring the fact that there are at least two points where I say that I was incorrect in handling the referenced situation.

In other words, I specifically noted that the handling of the situation was wrong.

...again, people wonder why devs end up posting terse replies on occasion. Stuff like this is why. You can literally say "I didn't handle that correctly" and someone will say "yeah, he will never admit he's wrong." Are we using facts here, or feelings?

8 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

Would it have been so difficult to have replied to Kyle's post in a more constructive (and respectful) manner, guys? The question that the OP asked at the start of this thread works both ways.

Thank you. It was meant to seek honest feedback, and provide thoughts for people to consider, since I know not everyone in here has worked on this side of the "counter."

7 hours ago, tonywob said:

In my job, I sometimes have to work in Norway/Sweden etc. What initially got me was just how blunt and to the point they can be, not just in person but also over email and on the phone. At first it was somewhat of a shock having worked mostly with US/UK clients who can sugar-coat everything, but once I realised it was nothing personal and that's just how people talk, it's no longer an issue. Once I got to know the people and work with them, they were some of the nicest and most pleasant I've worked with. 

 

Perhaps part of my issue.

[WotanUK 289]

11 hours ago, Raging Bull said:

Snore fest, Kyle. And that’s half your problem, zzzzzzzz.....

 

11 hours ago, kingm56 said:

True; plus, as evident by the drivel above, he always needs to be right, which is a poor attribute for a customer service representative.

Yikes, what dreadful responses.  You two are to be congratulated, you have  managed to make me believe that the problem isn't with Kyle it's with the entitled immature members of this community.

[kingm56 1,031]

10 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

Would it have been so difficult to have replied to Kyle's post in a more constructive (and respectful) manner, guys? The question that the OP asked at the start of this thread works both ways.

That's a fair retort, Chris; however, if I may, there's nothing I can offer that hasn't been stated multiple times before. I believe the individuals the OP highlighted have earned their poor reputations over the years. Heck, if you read this thread, you'll find many people who attempt to excuse their behaviors (e.g. he's knowledgeable, he's being direct or they make excellent products).  In short, anyone whose been around Flight Sim for more than a minute is well aware of these individuals.

The most basic IT certification (i.e. A+) focuses on dealing with customers.  IT can cause otherwise sane people to act irrationally; it's up to the PROFESSIONALS to maintain their composure and attempt to resolve the problem as quickly as possible. It's literally a fundamental tenet of our profession.  It does not, however, state one should berate a customer to fulfill their own sense of cognitive superiority. If you're asking how I would have handled the PMDG post, I would have typed the following:

My apologies, Mr x; the date you referenced was only an estimation.  It's PMDG's policy never to establish hard deadlines; however,we are working VERY hard to bring this feature to our fleet As Soon As Possible.  Also, going forward, we'll work harder to ensure our messaging is clearly understood by all.  Again, thank your continued support, sir...

Concerning customer responses; I understand the poster wanting to hear directly from PMDG, which should be an expectation of any customer.  We have far too many posters who act like their a part of 'the support team.'  Also, it's hard to notice the tone on the PMDG forums is vastly different from other sections.  I submit PMDG Customer Service Reps have set a negative culture, which others have adopted; ironically, I believe that attitude is the impetus of this thread.  

Finally, PMDG charges premium prices; consequently, they should offer premium service. Charging $200+ for an add-on should entitle a customer to professional and courteous support from the PMDG team; random customers shouldn't be asked to fulfill PMDG obligations. 

I suggest PMDG speak with MCE, A2A or ChasePlane; these companies provide PREMIUM, personalized and consistently courteous support...   

   

Edited November 4, 2018 by kingm56

[charliearon 3,024]

5 minutes ago, kingm56 said:

 

The most basic IT certification (i.e. A+) focuses on dealing with customers. 

 

.   

   

Odd!  I have A+ and Net+ certification and don't remember any "customer" related questions.  Hmm..it was in 2010 when I took the tests.  I was in customer service from 1972 until I retired in 2012.  Now I'm locked away in an asylum wearing a straitjacket 23 hrs. a day and using an unsharpened pencil to type on the keyboard.

[kingm56 1,031]

1 hour ago, WotanUK said:

 

Yikes, what dreadful responses.  You two are to be congratulated, you have  managed to make me believe that the problem isn't with Kyle it's with the entitled immature members of this community.

That is incredibly unfair, sir.  You, yourself, acknowledged Mr. Rodger's "abruptness"; to be clear, you and I stated the EXACT same thing:

"The quality of abruptness is an almost rude bluntness or suddenness"

The difference between you and I is you accept said behavior because "he's knowledgeable" (your words).  To be blunt, that's the exact attitude that perpetuates said behavior.  Again, PMDG sells their product for premium prices; consequently, we deserve premium support.  When I buy a first class ticket or luxury car, I don't expect the flight attendant and/or salesman to be rude to me.  Why should I have different expectations for PMDG...a company who charges 100 - 300% above their competitors?  

PMDG is not our friends, guys; they're a FOR PROFIT corporation.  Thus, they're not above criticism; please stop acting like their our buddies doing our hobby massive favors everyday by their mere presence. For the prices their charging, we should be expecting more....

Edited November 4, 2018 by kingm56

[kingm56 1,031]

4 minutes ago, charliearon said:

Odd!  I have A+ and Net+ certification and don't remember any "customer" related questions.  Hmm..it was in 2010 when I took the tests.  I was in customer service from 1972 until I retired in 2012.  Now I'm locked away in an asylum wearing a straitjacket 23 hrs. a day and using an unsharpened pencil to type on the keyboard.

It's in there :).  There was also some questions pertaining to interacting with customer kids (i.e. don't let the parent leave you alone in the house with them)...lol

[sloppysmusic 240]

One rather famous aircraft add-on company refunded me in full for one of their mal-functioning aircraft (whilst letting me keep the license so I could further test it out).

The problem was undeniably with their installer and this was proven beyond any possible doubt by multiple polite and restrained YouTube videos (posted by myself) and comments and replies in the support thread involved.

The reason given in the thread for the refund was in so many words I was simply not good enough to fly the aircraft in the first place. Incredible! My response was to use the refund money to immediately buy another similar aircraft of theirs and proceed to fly it with ease to help nurse my injured pride.

Next step was to reinstall the problem plane and during a week's testing I managed to pinpoint the exact reason for the catastrophic failure of the original plane in the sim.

Comments on my YT video by someone else told me the install scripts have now been corrected and the airplane no longer has a problem (it is probably my favorite aircraft too!)

I am not going to stop buying and flying great planes just because a developer has a bad day and insults me. The same dev doing it regularly to me would lose my custom.

The reason behind my continued loyalty to that particular company is that the thread containing the entire problem solving discussion (and insult) still remains to this day on the forum (according to my YT commenter!).  I wouldn't split up with a wonderful relationship partner just because he/she said something rotten once in an argument. If she continued the abuse or denied it ever happened in the first place I most likely would move on.

I believe to some extent that this is the cost of having so many truly marvelous add ons to buy for our sims. There are dedicated people out there who literally have to work all day and night sweating over a few lines of code to make sure a rivet is perfectly aligned, a winglet included with the correct livery, a door opens and closes at a realistic speed, the toe brakes feel 'just right', the plane works with all our other addons from OTHER developers, the flight deck windows are correctly sized for normal zoom rates etc etc the list is almost endless!

We simmers can definitely blather on indefinitely quoting multiple sources to prove our original post or reply was justified. Where would the fun be in the following imaginary thread ?

Customer: Me and several others have noticed that the cabin pressurization warning occurs 500 feet too low when climbing at 4000 fpm when OAT is below 40c.

Developer: It does indeed! Thanks so much for your invaluable time and testing. We will cancel our vacation plans and fix the issue immediately. 

 

Edited November 4, 2018 by sloppysmusic