Passengers lying about weight

[JonP01 104]

21 hours ago, Chock said:

It's simple, just prior to take off, as part of your pre-taxi check, you walk to the back of the aeroplane and shout 'oi! fatty!' Whoever turns around was almost certainly lying about their weight and needs to be either thrown off, or placed slightly in front of the centre of lift position.

How about they do what I see the airlines do here in Australia for carry on baggage? You stick the carry on baggage in a steel barred "template" (like a goal cell but the top is open). If it fits you are good to go. If it doesn't then you have to check it in. So same with people - we just crane them up and try to stuff them into a human cage "template". If you have to really squash them down like a wine cork t(or they won't squash in at all) hen they pay for two seats. I think this would be a great way to do it since if nothing else, it makes for great entertainment as you wait for that delayed-yet-again flight:)

[JonP01 104]

4 minutes ago, Jethro said:

Soon we'll all be stacked in the cargo hold or cabin space converted to cargo, after a thorough probing, ID scan and knockout injection.

Not forgetting the explosive residue test (and yes, I had one of those last month). 

[Jethro 65]

Would the explosive residue test cover the argument had with the cab driver over the fare to the airport still lingering in you mind as you check-in, or the exorbitant long term parking charges or the burrito had for lunch. These can leave a lingering explosive effect! In some instances a burrito lunch can be as dangerous in confined spaces. There might not even be a detectable residue. Ha Ha Ha

[tonywob 4,768]

19 minutes ago, JonP01 said:

How about they do what I see the airlines do here in Australia for carry on baggage? You stick the carry on baggage in a steel barred "template" (like a goal cell but the top is open)

They do that here in Europe as well, but they don't always check.

I was amazed in Australia when flying with TigerAir that they walk around with a portable weighing machine and weighed everyone's hand luggage. Nobody is getting away with it there 🙂

[JonP01 104]

1 minute ago, tonywob said:

They do that here in Europe as well, but they don't always check.

I was amazed in Australia when flying with TigerAir that they walk around with a portable weighing machine and weighed everyone's hand luggage. Nobody is getting away with it there 🙂

Funny thing is my backpack was within the required carry-on dimensions and it subsequently easily passed the "cage" check. But I had to really force it into the overhead compartment in that SAAB. I mean really squash it in with considerable force. Next time I am going to take my other small overnight bag (which is like a miniature version of those tennis raquet bags) as I will probably be travelling on these SAABs relatively frequently in the future.

[JonP01 104]

17 minutes ago, Jethro said:

Would the explosive residue test cover the argument had with the cab driver over the fare to the airport still lingering in you mind as you check-in, or the exorbitant long term parking charges or the burrito had for lunch.

More likely the exorbitant $20 train fare from my local railway station to Sydney airport "Domestic" station and the hour delay on the flight.

btw, so far as car parking at YSSY is concerned, some people take it very seriously indeed:

 

 

 

[steve310002 1,198]

On 11/6/2018 at 8:40 AM, tonywob said:

o top it all off, he was getting angry and aggressive with the flight attendants because he couldn't fit in the seat.

It sounds like a scene from Monty Python 😀  

[John_Cillis 2,406]

On 11/5/2018 at 7:00 AM, JonP01 said:

I've been a bit obsessed with weight lately when I was reading up in relation to a recent (and very enjoyable) trip I took with REX airlines in a SAAB 340B. The airline (fantastic pilots and flight attendants btw) were very proud of their bespoke "flight bag" which amongst other things claims a fuel saving due to reduced weight. But the sort of weight saving we are talking about here wouldn't even register on the fuel gauge of my tiny Kia Picanto car, let alone a 12 tonne aircraft with 2,400 kw of turboprop power. Yes, I know planes and cars do not translate for very obvious reasons and that aircraft have great sensitivity where a car does not, but still - it amazes me as a non-pilot how critical weight really is (though in turn it makes me understand why accurate calculation is mandatory).

But I chanced on a Youtube video today (an old one) where a GA aircraft barely got off the runway. It's performance was so compromised (high density altitude, short runway, obstructions, etc) that the stall horn was just beeping continually after rotation. Way beyond my comfort zone. But alot of the comments shocked me as pilots were weighing in (sorry about the pun) about passengers lying about their weight and thus compromising performance.

These comments really surprised me because I then do some archive browsing here at Avsim and pilots here are appear to be very thorough aand precise about weights - to the point where they have properly weighed everything - including small dogs!

So my question is: why would people be getting into any GA light aircraft without being properly weighed first? If even a battery has to be taken into account, why would you chance it with a human that might say they weigh 77 kg when they actually weigh 85 kg, for example? OK, if you are just carrying one or maybe even two passengers in a more powerful variant, you are probably safe if it is a short flight from a long runway close to sea level. But as a non-pilot and thus a layman, to me it just seems almost negligent to simply rely on a guesstimate (or a passenger "say so") as to what they actually weigh. I'd be putting them on scales myself regardless. Which is why maybe I misunderstood those comments. Perhaps they are really saying "well the passenger lied about their weight till I weighed them!!".

So is there a specific / mandatory procedure for light GA flying in this regard?

Worse than passengers lying about weight I found was when I was shopping for potential light sport aircraft--sellers lying about gross weight of their aircraft, refusing to show their airworthiness certificate or not having one period, expecting the buyer to obtain one.   They would complain of a buyer asking for one as being a "tire kicker".  Bad enough used care salesmen use this term, but when an aircraft seller uses this term, it makes them a potential killer, just trying to sell their problem to an unsuspecting buyer assuming their low hours makes them an unsafe pilot. 

I never lied about my weight but would hear "oh, you could not possibly weigh that much".  Sometimes I flew aircraft that had an understated gross weight, before I lost 40 pounds they could climb like a rocket but sadly they were registered using the European microlight limit of 450KG even though the kit plane maker certified them for a higher weight in the US. 

Other microlights were simply underpowered and thus climbed anemically.  The Light Sport Allegro 2000, even with a 80 hp Rotax (my trainer had a 100HP Rotax) could climb like a rocket, it was a certified LSA, one of the first, but had weak landing gear and my trainer suffered landing gear failure after it was sold. 

This was later corrected on newer models.  I also flew an Ercoupe which had an anemic climb rate and high sink rate, even with lighter fabric wings.  There is even a 1320# STC, that gives it a higher legal gross, since it can still climbwith 420 pounds of pilot aboard and full fuel and cruise near 100 mph.  Anyway, so there you have it.  If you fly light GA aircraft or plan on being a skydiver, do not lie about your weight.  And if you are a seller, if you lie about your aircraft's gross, you are a would be murderer.

John